Divorce and remarriage

Actually, John, I don't konw that. I would have assumed it, but you just made a statement and took a position that is at direct odds with the historic doctrine of inspiration.

Context is the key, you are correct. And that is why we can affirm the mandate of the "same chair" without affirming its application to today. If you understand the context of Scripture, that is no problem. But it proves my point, not yours. The context of 1 Cor 7 is the NT church, not OT Israel (which was your "chair" example).

I agree, but that is not the issue in this particular moment.

 

Matthew 19:9 states that if a man divorce a woman for fornication and remarrys he does not commit adultery.......thats means saved or lost people....its funny I have been reading over alot of these forums for the past 2 days and see alot of ppl assume that everyone reads the Bible and was brought up believing the Bible.

Not all marriages are joined by God this is a key thing to remember....If you think all marriage is of God then does that include Gay marriage? NO! but ppl assume that when you marry its joined by God but what if you dont know God, aren't saved or are a differant religion. Did God join your marriage? If not then how does the Bible apply to an unbeliever it doesnt because they dont believe. Once you believe then you can apply the Bible to your life. Dont misunderstand me here though the Word of God affects everyones life what I am saying is that unbelievers will not apply the Bible to there lives.


I had a topic "A few question on Divorce" but I cant find it now so I'll repost it here

Just had two questions.

Q...Why do Baptist, in general, believe if your divorced you cant hold an Elder, Deacon, or Pastoral role in Church. But, if you where once an alcoholic, former criminal, or wife abuser and are now saved your good as long as your not or have not been divorced/remarried

Q...What does Matthew 19:9 mean and how does it apply to 1 Timothy 3:1-13

My Answer-> Romans 3:23, Romans 6:4........We all have sinned and once saved our old life doesnt matter any more its what we do with our lives after salvation that counts, Right ? Christ was clear on divorce in Matthew 19:9
and Paul was clear in his letter to Timothy and the Bible never contridicts its self, Right ? So, if I am lost and my wife gets pregnant by another man and we divorce for that reason would that fall under Matthew 19:9, yes it would.
Then time passes and I come to know Christ as my Lord and Savior but before that time I have remarried. Am I commiting adultry, not according to Matthew 19:9 I am not. Do I have more than one wife, according to the law of the land and Matthew 19:9 I have only one wife so why then could I not preach ?????? I feel though that Matthew 19:9 applys to those who are saved as well, why would it not, but with prayer I believe your marriage is always able to be saved. But, if your lost how can you pray without faith? Ephesians 2:8


Please understand I am not against doctrine. When doctrine goes against the word of God then its ungodly..I ask this only because I have had several baptist be it southern, free will, independent, or baptist say that there doctrine doesnt allow for divorced men to preach in there churches. When they should ask, Where you lost when you got divorced? and Did you divorce because of adultery?, These are the correct question to ask. If answered according to scripture there should be no problem.

If I am wrong please correct me.

Matthew 19:6 or Mark 10:9 doesnt apply. If you dont believe in God or are lost how can God join you.


Rev. Jerry D. Lowery
email revlowery@truechristministries.com
http://www.truechristministries.com

 

Dear Brother Lowery,
Your topic Thread a few questions about divorce was moved to the Other Christian Denominations forum.

I made the move myself and I notified you via email.

Your profile states you are a Christian.

I have no doubt of the truthfulness of that profession. However, you posted that topic and this reply to this topic in a Baptist Only discussion forum.

If you are not a Baptist please discontinue posting in Baptist Only Discussion forums.

Bro. Dallas Eaton
Frogman Co-Moderator

 

What I find so disappointing is that Christian bookstore shelves are full of books dealing with biblical marriage, para-church groups focus on helping couples have a happy and biblical marriage, and we have full time biblical counselors on our church staff’s and yet we find that born-again Christians have the same likelihood of divorce as do non-Christians.

The Barna group says that among married born-again Christians, 35% have experienced a divorce. That figure is identical to the outcome among married adults who are not born-again: 35%. And we also find that multiple divorces are also unexpectedly common among born-again Christians. Barna’s figures show that nearly one-quarter of the married born-agains (23%) get divorced two or more times.

We as Christians should be asking why(?) is this happening? We run around saying that we’re different, that God and the Holy Spirit have something to offer us that the world cannot, that we are in the world but not of the world and yet our marriages say otherwise. I have always believed and still do believe that the family that prays together, stays together. Perhaps the Christian family fills their lives as the non-Christian families do and that is, filling our lives with everything but God and His Word. We are too busy (working, recreation, self-centered interests) to spend the needed time with our spouse and family. If we are to reach the world with the Gospel, we have got to show the world that Christ not only saves, but also delivers.

 

Some men do not want to change their ill begotten behavior/abuse towards their wives. They think that they are right. I know a man, who has a mind set like this. He refuses to change. His wife has left him but they cannot afford a divorce. He does not believe that he needs counseling.

 

There are women who are just as wrong and just as dangerously evil.

 

My own story: After being in Iraq for 11 months during Desert Storm, I came home with all the intentions of marrying my wife all over again. Kind of a fresh start if you will. Instead I got "I don't love you, I want a divorce" Later on I found out she had basically been planning this and had already essentially already left me, a divorce was the final stage.

Needless to say I tried for 3 months to put my marriage back together, but to this day I still do not know what really happened because she would not talk about it. I finally left and moved back on base (I was in the Marines). I was basically an alcoholic/drunk for 2 years before meeting my current wife of 12 years. I did not know Christ at this time, but it was my wife who 3 years later led me to him. If it wasn't for her I would probably be dead and would have died without knowing Jesus Christ.

Still the hardest thing I have accepting is how many Baptist Churches treat divorced people. It's almost like we are the Lepers of the OT/NT times. I can never be a Deacon or a Pastor, but I know that God loves me so that's enough. I would just like to see more compassion for divorced people. I would never leave the Baptist faith because I really love the doctrine. But if Christ can hang out with tax collectors and whores, why can't we have more compassion for divorced people?

 

In our church, you would not be considered divorced. An extra-biblical "marriage" is nothing but a piece of government paper. (Otherwise, you have to accept homo marriage as a legitimate marriage, for one thing, and that just covers the immediate aspect of it.)

However, even if you had a biblical marriage, and your wife abandoned you, then you're in a different set of conditions than if you had abandoned her.

I agree that more churches should have more compassion; and they can and still keep it biblical.

 

I've had the misfortune - actually the bad judgement - to have divorced three times. I'm not proud of it and I'm not going to say it was anyone's fault. In my case, I didn't seek God's mate for myself and I didn't include Him in my marriages, so they were bound to fail. It continues to irritate me when I fill out an application for anything and have to select Divorced rather than Single. I'm both!

But my main point about divorce is that Christ provides Grace over and over in our lives, even when we make the same stupid mistakes. We can beat ourselves up and have horrible self-images because of our failures in relationships, but God doesn't see us as failures. He sees us as children - immature, selfish, but worthy of His love and forgiveness. I say worthy not out of anything we've done, but because He created us in His image. We're the apex of His creation on earth. We're worth sending His Son to redeem - in His eyes if not our own.

Should a wife stay with a husband that beats her? I'd say no. Should a wife expose her children to a drunken father who abuses her and the children? No. Leave the man (or woman) and pray for them. When they come to their senses, maybe you can get back together if God hasn't brought His choice for your mate into your life. God is not going to test or to punish His children by having them marry the wrong person. He's punished Jesus enough already. If you're in an abusive relationship, ask yourself whether you're there because of lust or loneliness, or because God told you 'This is my choice for you." If you prayed that God would let you marry your spouse because you wanted that person so badly, then you might have gotten what you prayed for, but you didn't get the best that God intended for you.

Now I know that very few people hear God say that the person you married is His choice for your mate. Christians divorce at the same rate that non-Christians divorce. That doesn't mean that everyone who hasn't heard from God should go out and get divorced. God could be working in your spouse's life and He could use you to lead your mate to Him. But if He does, He's also going to equip you to bear that cross, and in the process He's probably working on you too.

Should divorced people serve in church? If you want to get anything done, you're going to have to include them. Should they be in leadership positions? If they're being judged for poor judgement, then what else is the criteria? Did they vote for the wrong political candidate? Did they hit on another member's spouse? The correct question when it comes to leadership is: Is this person's heart right towards God and is there any fruit in his or her life? Leaders aren't appointed, they assume responsibility and they earn trust. If a divorcee is following the Lord and they're out there serving God in whatever capacity He's gifted them, then I'd trust the God inside them and let them lead.

 

non-Baptists' posts will be deleted from Baptists only forums. Please follow BB rules.
DHK

[ December 29, 2005, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]