Divorce

[MartyF]

No, I didn't.

You and I have different definitions of deception.

But according to God's definition, "one man, one woman, one lifetime" they are married.

This hasn’t been the definition for as long as anyone have lived. So, if a couple never took advantagef the laws governing “marriage” by calling themselves “married” to the government, I would agree.

However, in my opinion, it is a deceptive form of theft to declare a divorce just to get more money.

Marty

 

[agedman]

This thread is not about divorce, but about using divorce in order to attain a better financial stability to those who might be under some huge difficulties. In the OP, it was concerning a good family who have a special needs child.

Frankly, I see no problem with seeking divorce from the eyes of the government. They only provided the certificate of license, and were not involved other than blood testing for disease.

 

[Dave G]

" Abstain from all appearance of evil." ( 1 Thessalonians 5:22 )

 

[rlvaughn]

Should this former pastor and wife divorce (by the state legal system) and yet remain married in the eyes of God?

No, I don't think they should. I agree that it does not take a certificate from any government to be married in the eyes of God -- it is a covenant that a man and a woman makes between themselves and before God. Men and women have been doing that since the beginning of time, without the benefit of the government's stamp of approval. But in this case they did not object to the government's approval/requirement, until it became a negative in their eyes (and the eyes of their advisers) -- as it probably true of most all of us (i.e., we submitted to the government marriage certificate). The main rub I see is this: (1) they were married not only in the eyes of God, but also in the eyes of government, and (2) this solution engages in playing not married on the one hand, and married on the other hand.

Perhaps Christians need to rethink the whole concept of "government marriage," but in the meantime it is a bad testimony to accept it when it is beneficial to us, this chunk it when it is not.

Would you view this as being deceitful in order to "bilk" the government out of money?

Would you view this a legal and a way to get the compensation that is rightfully theirs?

Yes, I view it as deceitful. It is telling one group of people you are not married, and telling another group you are. It is "double-minded." On the other hand, I am ambivalent toward whether it is "bilking the government" or whether it is "rightfully theirs". The whole Social Security system is messed up and they are probably getting money someone else is putting in right now. Some have paid in a little and got back a lot; some have paid in a lot and got back a little.

They deserve to get something if they paid in. I have no idea what would be "rightfully theirs." AND, these kinds of things need to be fixed so that people aren't punished for being married.

Are there any Christians and/or churches nearby who can step in an help?

 

[Aaron]

A former pastor is drawing SS benefits, but is limited by the "special needs" of his oldest daughter (down syndrome) who receives a great amount from the family benefits for her support. She gets approximately 2/3rds of the typical retirement benefits the SS awards under the family plan. So their own living expenses are not covered, and they must also further supplement her because there is no condition in which she can be independently living.

He found out that if he and his wife get divorced, the wife would get full benefits which would allow for the total income into the family to be raised. Therefore, the lose currently suffered under the SS family plan would be much less than it currently is.

They have consulted with multiple estate planning and specialists in the SS, and each has given the following suggestion:

Get divorced.

Here in the states, the marriage is both a Spiritual vow taking, and a legal signature and witnesses on a license.

Should this former pastor and wife divorce (by the state legal system) and yet remain married in the eyes of God?

Would you view this as being deceitful in order to "bilk" the government out of money?

Would you view this a legal and a way to get the compensation that is rightfully theirs?

Your thoughts?

They need to get jobs.

 

[Salty]

They need to get jobs.

 

[rlvaughn]

"But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay..."

Government: "Are you married?"
Christian: "Nay, Nay."

Church: "Are you married?"
Christian: "Yea, yea."

That doesn't sound as if it fits either the letter or spirit of Jesus's exhortation.

 

[agedman]

They need to get jobs.

Not an option.

 

[Aaron]

Not an option.

Baloney. He's a pastor.

 

[agedman]

Baloney. He's a pastor.

Retired pastor.

 

[Rolfe]

Seems like a case of the ethics justified by the situation.

 

[Dave G]

Retired pastor.

What's this thing called a "retired pastor"?
I can't seem to find it in Scripture.

 

[KJVOBible]

Here in the states, the marriage is both a Spiritual vow taking, and a legal signature and witnesses on a license.

Should this former pastor and wife divorce (by the state legal system) and yet remain married in the eyes of God?

Would you view this as being deceitful in order to "bilk" the government out of money?

Would you view this a legal and a way to get the compensation that is rightfully theirs?

Your thoughts?

No, I do not believe they should divorce for money, and if they did I do not believe they would be considered married still in the eyes of God.

Yes, I would view divorcing someone for monetary gain as deceitful. My grandma divorced my grandpa for money long ago, they have been cheating the system for decades, I have told them how wrong and disturbing that is but they don't care.

No, I would not view that as a legal way to receive compensation, that would be not only lying, it would also be them two disobeying God by divorcing, God said He HATES divorce. Also they would not be placing their faith in God, they would be instead making the Government their provider. They need to suck it up so to speak and trust in God.

Those are my thoughts... I have seen it in my life and it's one pet peeve of mine, I just loathe it when people abuse the system.

PS. May I add, no matter what the world says, in the case of saying hey it's okay to get a divorce if you really need the money, we are not to listen to the world. Remember, we are in the world, but we are not to be of the world. Gods Words and teachings on the matter should be ALL that matters, and He said let NO man or woman put away their spouse, period.

 

[agedman]

No, I do not believe they should divorce for money, and if they did I do not believe they would be considered married still in the eyes of God.

Are you saying that God is manipulated by human laws?

Yes, I would view divorcing someone for monetary gain as deceitful. My grandma divorced my grandpa for money long ago, they have been cheating the system for decades, I have told them how wrong and disturbing that is but they don't care.

Why should they care. It is none of your business. They are really not "cheating" anyone, nor are they being deceitful. They have apparently followed the legal system and used that same system legally to aid them. The same as anyone has the right to do.

No, I would not view that as a legal way to receive compensation, that would be not only lying, it would also be them two disobeying God by divorcing, God said He HATES divorce. Also they would not be placing their faith in God, they would be instead making the Government their provider. They need to suck it up so to speak and trust in God.

Perhaps you should show the Scriptures that state, "God hates divorce." Haven't found it yet, but then it wouldn't be unusual to may have missed that in reading.

More seriously, you consider it illegal for them receiving the compensation because they choose to use legal means to received the compensation. That would be rather convoluted logic, wouldn't it? If it is legal compensation, attained legally, then it is not illegal.

On another matter, "suck it up" is so easy for the youth to spout. They have all their future ahead of them to gather and store. We elderly have no advantage and are often left with little or less financial ability to meet the continual growing expenses. For example, were a young person may visit the doctor once a year, the typcial elder person will have four visits. Were the typical youth have perhaps one medication to take (perhaps birth control, or ADD meds) the elderly often have more than four.

"Suck it up" isn't an option and is most certainly one of the more disrespectful statements youth can make to the elderly.

Those are my thoughts... I have seen it in my life and it's one pet peeve of mine, I just loathe it when people abuse the system.

Really? Abuse the system? There is no criminality, and no abuse to the system other than your own disrespect to the elderly.

PS. May I add, no matter what the world says, in the case of saying hey it's okay to get a divorce if you really need the money, we are not to listen to the world. Remember, we are in the world, but we are not to be of the world. Gods Words and teachings on the matter should be ALL that matters, and He said let NO man or woman put away their spouse, period.

No that is not what the Scripture states. Perhaps in your zeal you run to excess and need to adjust your perspective in gaining maturity.

 

[Dave G]

Perhaps you should show the Scriptures that state, "God hates divorce." Haven't found it yet, but then it wouldn't be unusual to may have missed that in reading.

" For the Lord, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for [one] covereth violence with his garment, saith the Lord of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously." ( Malachi 2:16 )

" Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." ( Matthew 19:6 )

PS. May I add, no matter what the world says, in the case of saying hey it's okay to get a divorce if you really need the money, we are not to listen to the world. Remember, we are in the world, but we are not to be of the world. Gods Words and teachings on the matter should be ALL that matters, and He said let NO man or woman put away their spouse, period.

No that is not what the Scripture states.

With respect, that is what the Scripture states.

" Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband.
3 So then if, while [her] husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man." ( Romans 7:1-3 )

" And unto the married I command, [yet] not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from [her] husband:
11 but and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to [her] husband: and let not the husband put away [his] wife." ( 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 )


May God bless you.

 

[Salty]

What's this thing called a "retired pastor"?
I can't seem to find it in Scripture.

Some pastors need to retire.
When they get to the point that their physical condition is so bad that
they can not fulfill their duties.

Many years ago, a former pastor of mine told me that he was leading the music
for a well known evangelist. My pastor stated that one night - that the good Dr
leaned over to Pastor John and asked him "what did I preach on last night"

Sometimes a pastor has a responsibility to retire

Doesnt mean that a person cannot minister at all - but he should
realize his limitations.

 

[Southern Fried Baptist]

God hates divorce.

 

[StanSan]

My friend's father from Benin (Africa) had two wives and children from them. What should he do with them after conversion?

 

[Deacon]

What should he do...?

Simply don”t seek to become an elder.

Rob

 

[StanSan]

God hates divorce.

... like all other kinds of sin (incl. James 4:17)