DivorceCare

[givengrace]

No, it wasn't. Besides you asked for "any other words of encouragement."

I meant from a Qualified DivorceCare Leader.
Now I've also said I don't wish to argue with you and as far as I'm concerned I'm finished with this subject were you are concerned.

 

[Pastor Larry]

How do you know I lack knowledge in this area?

Because of your comments I can just tell

You should question your judgment then. I have quite a bit of knowledge in this area. I am routinely involved in counseling divorced persons and people desiring to divorce. This week, I have spent more than ten hours in that type of ministry, and that is about normal. I would imagine that is probably as much or more than you spent in that type of ministry.

How do you know I don't lead a ministry to divorced people?Dido

You are incorrect. (And the word you are looking for is "ditto.")

How do you know I don't counsel almost divorced people?I don't know this but if you do you sure don't seem to be compassionate for them.

You are incorrect. I am routinely involved over an extended period of time with couples in this situation. If they did not believe I was compassionate, I imagine they would not tell me I am, and I imagine they would not keep coming back.

How do you know enough about me to know what my knowledge is in the area of ministry to divorced/troubled marriages? Because of your answers your lack of knowledge shines through.

You are incorrect.

you just aren't knowledgeable in this area or don't have a caring passion for what they've experienced.

You are incorrect.

And if you would go back and read my Original post I was asking for someone working in DivorceCare .

That wasn't clear, as was demonstrated. Furthermore, it was probably unwise. You need to be asking advice from a larger segment of people, including those who have knowledge of the area that you are interested which is church work.

So do what you want, but don't be so judgmental against those about whom you know nothing. It is not wise.

 

[Pastor Larry]

BTW, I find it interesting that you know so much about my "lack of knowledge" in dealing with divorce since I have (to my knowledge) said absolutely nothing about what I believe about divorce, or how I deal with people who want to divorce or who have been divorced.

So please tell me, how have you learned so much about my lack of knowledge since I have said nothing about the topic itself?

 

[givengrace]

BTW, I find it interesting that you know so much about my "lack of knowledge" in dealing with divorce since I have (to my knowledge) said absolutely nothing about what I believe about divorce, or how I deal with people who want to divorce or who have been divorced.

So please tell me, how have you learned so much about my lack of knowledge since I have said nothing about the topic itself?

I was looking to find out if there was any DivorceCare leaders on this board. Not someone who has counseled people who have gone through a divorce or people who are thinking of getting a divorce. DivorceCare is a support group for this purpose I know, but what I was looking for was help getting a new group starting. Getting the word out and such other information or ideas that could help us. You are not qualified because you yourself do not lead a DivorceCare group.


I would like to add that because I've been though a divorce I feel I am better qualified than someone who hasn't as to how it feels.
No more than because my Mother has died I can't fully understand how it is to loose a spouse or a Child to death.

Now I am getting ready for church. Yes! a Saturday Night Worship Service at one church and I'll go to what is possibly our new church for Sunday school and Worship Service in the morning.

 

[Pastor Larry]

I would like to add that because I've been though a divorce I feel I am better qualified than someone who hasn't as to how it feels.

I would caution people very strongly against this idea. A person who has experienced something may know better how it feels, but they do not necessarily know better how to deal with it, particularly biblically. Often, unbiblical thinking is what got them there to begin with. (I am not saying always, and I am not saying you.)

I think this mentality sets up a dichotomy that says that people who have lived godly lives can't really help those who haven't, and we all need to go out and sin some in order to be able to really minister to people. I think that is not only dangerous; it is unbiblical.

The best qualified people to deal with troubled marriages are people who know the word of God and have a godly marriage. It is not people who used to have a bad one.

BTW, you still didn't tell me why you believe I have no compassion and lack knowledge on dealing with divorce and troubled marriages.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Givengrace,

Greetings. I would advise you to ignore the advice of those seeking to smother the flame that the Spirit has put in your hearts. I'm sure they mean well, but they seem to have things backwards.

God is the authority who is in charge of His people...not individual churches.

Right now I have no doubt that there is a fellowship somewhere that is looking for the very thing that you and your husband are annointed of God to minister, and I pray that you find each other in Gods timing.

God bless you.


:godisgood:

 

[Marcia]

And as I have said I did ask for help from a DivorceCare leader.

Givengrace, I am saying this in a friendly way: I hope you realize that you did post this request on a debate forum, so you shouldn't be surprised at some of the reactions. Maybe a thread in one of the non-debate forums might have worked best?

 

[Pastor Larry]

I would advise you to ignore the advice of those seeking to smother the flame that the Spirit has put in your hearts. I'm sure they mean well, but they seem to have things backwards.

God is the authority who is in charge of His people...not individual churches.

I assume you are talking about me and if so, then your comments are most unfortunate in two respects. First, as a practical and personal matter, I have not tried to smother any flames that the Holy Spirit has put in anyone's heart. I will be the first to admit that I don't know what the Holy Spirit has put in someone else's heart, and I would encourage you to take the same tack. Remember, you don't know anything about "givengrace" and so it might be wise to resist attributing this to the Holy Spirit (or saying it isn't of the Spirit). It may be of the Spirit. It may be selfish interest. I have no idea and I refuse to speculate. I encourage others to do the same. But I know both happen in "ministry."

Second, as a theological and practical matter, the dichotomy you make between the authority of God and the individual church is one the NT knows nothing about. The pattern of the NT is exclusively that God works through his church. Consider the sending of missionaries in ACts (something givengrace has talked about). There, the church sent them out.

Notice in Acts 13 how it is recorded for us: Then, when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia and from there they sailed to Cyprus.

Notice how the church fasts and prays, lays hand on them, and sends them out. And it says that they were sent out by the HOly Spirit.

The NT knows nothing of maverick believers out doing their own thing apart from the commissioning and sending of a local individual church.

As a side note, this is a matter of Baptist polity. And to post in the Baptist only forums, it is something that you really should subscribe to.

 

[givengrace]

Givengrace, I am saying this in a friendly way: I hope you realize that you did post this request on a debate forum, so you shouldn't be surprised at some of the reactions. Maybe a thread in one of the non-debate forums might have worked best?

You're Right (now that I look Back) and I am truly sorry. I saw
General Baptist" And I guess I was thinking General Discussions

 

[JerryL]

Maybe that why there's people like me and My husband reaching the hurting and lost like Jesus did and your stuck in your old ways.

It's ok, you didn't realize you were dealing with the baptist unpardonable sin. :thumbs:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Larry,

You said...

"I assume you are talking about me and if so, then your comments are most unfortunate in two respects. First, as a practical and personal matter, I have not tried to smother any flames that the Holy Spirit has put in anyone's heart."

I dont know how you could say that. The original poster clearly articulated that her and her husband have a heart felt compassion for people struggling in marriage, and want to minister to them. She indicated that since their current church cant facilitate a ministry like that, they were looking for another fellowship that could.

You then said...

"Perhaps rather than building your lives around DivorceCare and going about to find a place to do it, build your life around a church and fill the needs at the church. I am sure there are other ministries of the church that you could get involved in."

Seems crystal clear to me.

"I struggle with the idea that we create a ministry idea and then go search for a church to let us do it. I think the biblical pattern is that ministry flows out of a church."

But if she leaves her current fellowship, and finds another, she has not left the church. There is only one church on this earth...the body of Christ world wide. She would be leaving one *local* church for another *local* church...but she has not in any way left "THE CHURCH"...since Christs church is world wide.

The scriptures speak of local churches, and also of the "church universal".

"I will be the first to admit that I don't know what the Holy Spirit has put in someone else's heart, and I would encourage you to take the same tack. Remember, you don't know anything about "givengrace" and so it might be wise to resist attributing this to the Holy Spirit (or saying it isn't of the Spirit)."

But its not unreasonable to assume that she is not lying, or decieving us for some reason, and to correspond with her on that assumption that her stated motives are completely sincere.

"It may be of the Spirit. It may be selfish interest. I have no idea and I refuse to speculate. I encourage others to do the same. But I know both happen in "ministry."

I agree. But my "modus operendi" is to assume the best and proceed from there.

"Second, as a theological and practical matter, the dichotomy you make between the authority of God and the individual church is one the NT knows nothing about."

Yes, the scriptures do.

"The pattern of the NT is exclusively that God works through his church."

I agree 100%. His church consists of all of the born again people on earth, of which the vast majority are gathering together in local fellowships

"Consider the sending of missionaries in ACts (something givengrace has talked about). There, the church sent them out.

Notice in Acts 13 how it is recorded for us: Then, when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia and from there they sailed to Cyprus.

Notice how the church fasts and prays, lays hand on them, and sends them out. And it says that they were sent out by the HOly Spirit."

I agree 100% with all of that.

"The NT knows nothing of maverick believers out doing their own thing apart from the commissioning and sending of a local individual church."

Who said anything about "maverick" believers? Givengrace is looking for ANOTHER New Testament church that might be able to sponsor their ministry to divorced people.

"As a side note, this is a matter of Baptist polity. And to post in the Baptist only forums, it is something that you really should subscribe to."

Brother, another distictive in Baptist life is the doctrine known as "soul liberty". Its one of the reasons I am comfortable being a Baptist. The doctrine of soul liberty means that we believe that brothers and sisters have the right to their own convictions regarding belief and practice, and that those differences should not disturb our fellowship as brothers and sisters...assuming the differences are not foundational of course. (Denial of justification through faith alone, the triune nature of God, sola scriptura, etc etc)

So, I have no obligation whatsoever to agree with you regarding anything of this sort that we disagree on...unless you or God can convince me as to its truth.

Does your particular Baptist group NOT hold to the doctrine of "soul liberty"?

And in the same vein, since I am relatively new here, are these "Baptist Only" only forums only for *certain* Baptists, but not all Baptists?


:godisgood:

 

[queenbee]

I was looking to find out if there was any DivorceCare leaders on this board. Not someone who has counseled people who have gone through a divorce or people who are thinking of getting a divorce. DivorceCare is a support group for this purpose I know, but what I was looking for was help getting a new group starting. Getting the word out and such other information or ideas that could help us. You are not qualified because you yourself do not lead a DivorceCare group.

I would like to add that because I've been though a divorce I feel I am better qualified than someone who hasn't as to how it feels. No more than because my Mother has died I can't fully understand how it is to loose a spouse or a Child to death.

I've been quietly reading along. Givengrace - dear sister, you need to calm down and not take offence when others have simply been trying their best to answer the questions you initially posed. You left people confused as to what you were asking/stating. In fact, GG, your quote above IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE READ AND FULLY UNDERSTOOD what it is you're getting at. The point is GG, that you didn't clearly define any of this in your initial comments. That led to everyone (you included) going off on other tangents/getting snippy. Step back for one moment and consider that you might have left others confused with how you communicated your initial comments. In fact, dare I suggest (since DivorceCare is part of my church's ministry), that this is EXACTLY what you will be 'teaching' in your ministry you so obviously want to be part of. Will you not be 'teaching' by example, to those having gone thru divorce, that one of the necessary tools to prevent the same mistakes being made is more frequent and clearer communication?? Practice what you preach is a good start. By the way, I hope you are successful in getting you're DC group off the ground. I know it has been very successful in my church and blessed and encouraged many.

 

[Goldie]

Are there any DivorceCare group leaders on this forum?

Yes, One called Jesus Christ. :love2:

 

[dragonfly]

I echo pastor Larry's advice.

Birds of a feather...