Divorced in Church Roles

Oh, please do pray for me, I contend with liberalism and error quite often.

But I do have to ask you, how is it I "feel"? If I am to react to your "concern" I would be offended by your condescending remarks.

I have had these discussions several times. I have researched the Greek and the Hebrew concerning this and it never comes to permissiveness to divorce or to put away.

Now, if you wish to address the bill of divorcement God gave to Israel, we'd have to consider the Lord redeeming her after being put away to actually become His bride later on. That would be a direct offense of the Law of God.

Now if we were to consider that a "bill" is not yet ratified into law, we can make perfect sense of the intent of God in Jeremiah 3 as a very strict warning to Israel to stop playing the harlot and a reproof to Juda for doing the same.

Remember, there is a distinct difference between Israel and Juda, though they are both Jews.

We can compare Scripture with Scripture and also come to the conclusion that Hosea married Gomer in the same light as we find in Jeremiah 3.

They are not congruent, but are surely perpendicular to one another.

If I may, don't be so easily offended in a discussion. Learn there are many who disagree with you on certain subjects without playing the little games of immaturity.:godisgood:

 

That is so sad. But, anyway, back to the point of the thread…

WorthyIsTheLamb asked: How do you feel about a divorcee or the spouse (man of course) of a remarried couple being called to preach or preaching? Not a pastor, but other roles.



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I feel the same way God feels and the way He expressed in the Bible. He calls all types of people to the ministry (as evangelists, pastors, teachers, deacons, etc). He has called murderers, adulterers, thieves, even tax collectors. All of them are not worthy to carry His banner but He lets them anyway if their sins are washed in the blood of the Lamb and they are willing to follow Him.

When looking at a person to serve in the ministry I think we need to examine them per 1 Timothy and Titus and not add to God’s Word – note, if Paul had meant divorce in these lists he could have used that word (they do have it in Greek). He said “one woman man.” To say this means divorce is interpretation, not observation. And, since God never condemned divorce (He only condemned putting away – separation – for the wrong reasons) in the Bible, it is shaky (at best) to say Paul meant divorce.

I’m sure the Pharisees used labels like liberal to put down those that disagreed with them when they wanted to make rules stronger than those in God’s word. They were still wrong and they were still overly legalistic. There are a lot of good men out there that have been relegated to secondary status because some well meaning men have taken a strong, aggressive stand against something (like divorce) that God never condemns – and all of it based on how someone interpreted one woman man

I really do sincerely challenge anyone to find in the Bible where God says divorce is wrong. Not putting away – I can find several places where He is against that. They actually are two different things (See, for instance, Deuteronomy 24:1-4; Leviticus 21:7-15; Isaiah 50:1; Jeremiah 3:6-11; Matthew 19:1-12; Mark 10:1-12)

I recall back at Midwestern Baptist College (mid 70’s) being taught that we should search the Scriptures and not just take someone’s word about doctrine. I think we, as Independent Fundamental Baptists, have gone too long just taking people’s word for this important topic and not searching the Scriptures.

 

Divorce opens the door to the sin of adultery lying at the threshold.

Putting away has always been viewed as divorce, you are the only one who has ever said any different.

It has the same exact connotation and the same exact end result.

 

Actually, putting away opens up the door to adultery. Divorce cleans the slate.

There are some that view putting away as divorce. However, it has been my experience that most of these have never searched the Scriptures to see that they are distinct and seperate. They have just taken someone's word that they are the same and never really studied it first hand.

Not that it matters (it would be faulty logic - bandwagon argument), but there are a lot of people that have looked ino this issue and come away with the same conclusion as I - that the two are different, that divorce is what God put into place to correct the sin of putting away for the wrong reasons and that IFB churches have done a great disservice to many people that have gone through divorce.

The two do not have the same connotation and same end result. If you put away your spouse (seperate) and then have a relationship with someone else, that is adultery. If you get a divorce and legally break the bond then you are free (according to God's word) to pursue a relationship with another.

A man called of God to pastor should not be branded with a large "D" on their forehead just becuase they had a divorce in their past or the person they are married to has had a divorce in their past. God does not put this restriction on men, we should not put this restriction on men. either.

 

Whatever happened to context?

Explanation of why divorce was permitted in the law:

The ideal, pure intent of marriage:

How God sees it:

The scary consequences of having to live up to how God sees it:

Reality sets in - some can deal with it, others can't:

What amazes me most is when people take what Jesus says about the pure intention of God with respect to marriage, and attempt to enforce that as the "new law" with respect to marriage and divorce. Criminy! We couldn't even follow the OLD law, and that had provisions in it to take into account the hardness of our hearts! Jesus isn't establishing a new law. He's simply telling it like it is - what God meant marriage to be. Look at the context of Matthew 5:

He's not saying that, as of that moment, it was now against the law to look on another woman with lust and we must now obey the command never to lust after another woman. He was telling use how God's righteousness exceeds anything we can imagine -- that, in God's eyes, lust IS adultery. Similarly, He's not establishing a new law about divorce. He's explaining that, in God's eyes, divorce isn't just about "not wanting your wife anymore". The overall message is that the OT law was a guideline that was adapted to man's inability to follow anything more strict. In God's eyes, right and wrong are far more strict.

Does that mean we should go around lusting and divorcing? No, of course not. But neither does it mean that we should hold our brethren to these Stricter-Than-The-Law standards of righteousness. Show some mercy, people. God did - to YOU. Show it to your brothers.

 

Mercy? When have I not shown mercy?

I expect mercy from God, he promised his mercies are new every morning.

What I don't expect is God to let the hardness of men's hearts over-rule the institution that God put in place.:thumbsup:

 

I wasn't speaking to anyone in particular. But anyone who expects his brother to live up to the Greater-Than-The-Law requirements for marriage and divorce, and/or criticizes him for not doing so, is not showing mercy.

 

Amen, Npet! That's the most sensible post I've read in a while.:thumbsup:

 

Oh, I agree, but then you just made accusation against God and His Law.I will not.

It's His Law that is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.

None of us can live up to the Law.

Marriage is either an institution that makes two become one by the providential act of God, or it is not. No, not by any exception or alteration, but is the element of two becoming one flesh that makes the union compatible and irreversable.

Allowing sin to reverse the institution is therefore sin in itsself.

The Blood is the only cure for sin and divorce is an act of man, not an act of God.

 

I have read this thread with interest, since I am twice divorced and re-married and I serve God in the music at church. (The first divorce was Biblical; HE committed adultry on many occasions.)

Anyway, the old Hebrew laws number in the hundreds, and the Orthodox Jews believe that they must obey all these laws to get into Heaven. Is that what you all believe? If I recall correctly, Paul said that grace FREES the Jews from the law, so doesn't that apply to us Gentiles too?

My sins were washed away with Jesus' blood. No man can judge me.

There are so many different viewpoints here, who can say which is the correct one? I personally know a PASTOR of an IFB church who is divorce and remarried - and that church is growing and people are being saved! I am not going to tell God how to conduct his business, are you? Yet, I have seen plenty of pulpits filled with pious self-righteous, and holy men that are DEAD spiritually and the candlestick has long gone out in their church.

Just my opinion....as were all the other replies.

Debbie Mc

 

I am sorry to hear that and will pray for you to remain strong in the Lord

But doesn't free the man to commit sin inspite of grace.

Men will judge you, period, on this earth. God placed the powers that be into place for such purpose.

It's only when men judge you in error are they asking for the return of judgement upon their own lives.

When consideration is taken that God even uses the devil to bring men to salvation and to correct saved people in their misappropiations, your statement holds no precedence.

I had a father-in-law that was used of God to bring many souls to Christ. he was a drunkard, a drug addict, an adulterer, a child molestor, and had a few episodes of incest which he intiated with two of his three daughters.


He recently went home to be with the Lord.

Was he saved? In my opinion I would say "NO", but by his testimony he said he was.

He pastored 3 churches within 80 miles of us. I have some of his study books.

So what's your point?

Just in advance, I expect you will soon react with a plethora of emotions. I hope you are mature enough that it won't happen.

God doesn't honor opinions, but He does honor His word.:godisgood:

 

Exactly. I believe we are to obey the SPIRIT of the law, not the LETTER. There is a difference. That's what Jesus was pointing out. The never divorced person who lusts after other women is just as sinful as the divorced who committed physical adultry.

Why is it that we pick and choose (and even invent) which laws we want to follow and ignore the others? It's straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel. I think it's because of our pride.

 

You seem to have something confused there.

The Scripture reads "the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life.

One who thinks himself to be able to keep the letter of the law is ultimately headed for death due to his inability to satisfy the requirement of the Law.

The Spirit giving life speaks of that indwelling which is the direct result of salvation and what is truly Holy Ghost Baptism. (not to be confused with the ideal of the charismatic movement).

We are only able to "keep the whole law" in Jesus. In whom we have no sin as He never sinned.

We are not given a licentiousness to sin or not to sin, but given the heeding of the Spirit to avoid sin and an Advocate with the Father when we inadvertantly sin.

Intentional sin will be harshly dealt with in this life from above and very well would cause loss of reward in Heaven at the Judgement Seat of Christ.

The sin of self-glory is a good example of intentional sin that will go up in smoke as wood, hay, and stubble.:jesus:

 

I agree completely. Since that is the case, why do people make such a big deal about divorced persons as if divorce is the only factor in determining someone's spirituality, while ignoring other sins in their own lives? It's because of pride.

I'm not divorced, but I have friends and family members who have suffered it. Not all of them even wanted divorce or were at fault. To say they are sinning by remarriage is not my place. I believe the church has done a great disservice to divorced people by making them feel inferior, while letting non-divorced persons full of "secret sins" serve in the church.

 

Wrong thread...

 

Divorce is an open sin while most of what you're talking about are "hidden".

When we compare the similarities between our relationship with the Lord to that of being married we see why it's like this.

But let me say, just because one is dovorced doesn't mean they are less than anyone else in my eyes or God's eyes.

It's just when it comes to the position requirements God makes those rules.

I know many in our church are remarried. The reality is this, all of them have a certain amount of bitterness due solely to the divorce, for whatever reason.

We know the root of bitterness defiles others in it's degrading process.

One of the most fun-loving people I know is divorced, but I have to say, he can be quite emotional and very offensive at times.

I believe that God knows the detrimental results of any divorce, to all involved.

 

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Talk about reacting with a plethora of emotions. I think this goes a long way to explain some of the animosity and bitterness toward people who have been divorced.


Anyway, divorce is not only NOT an open sin - its not even a sin, period. There has only been some emotional rants on this thread as proof that divorce is a sin. But, as stated in several posts, above, it is "putting away" (in other words, seperating) for the wrong reasons that is the sin. Divorce is the legal mechanism God instituted to allow people to put the sin behind them and get on with their life.

 

There are over 600 laws in the Old Testament. Go ahead, impress me, obey all of them. <smile> What will it get you? , I would say.

The actuality of this is: The O.T. "Law" was a contract between God and the Israelites. I am covered on the N.T covenant, and I am thereby covered by grace. Only the laws that are included (transferred) to the N.T apply to me. (The 10 commandments as we know them, and several others that Christ reiterated about loving the Lord they God with all thy heart, and loving your neigbior as yourself)

For example, that's why I don't eat Kosher or worship on Friday evening....

Yes, wrong divorce is a sin. No, I am not perfect. But I am saved by grace and I want to share it with others. I haven't seen even a PASTOR that is perfect yet. Should they quit preaching and leading because they are a sinner?

 

Hi dcorbett,

I think you are absolutely on the right rack. My only comment is that there is no such thing as a "wrong divorce." That would be akin to saying there is a "wrong sacrifice" for sins. Seperation (Bible calls this putting away) is what can be right or wrong - and can be a sin or not.

I've listed several verses below that are related to this subject. Even a quick reading shows that God sees seperation and divorce as two different things (A simple analogy would be God seeing sin and sacrifice as two different things) - seperation being the issue and divorce being God's fix.

One of my professors at seminary once said, "the person that defines the terms wins the argument." I think we have gone way too long letting people with an agenda define divorce and putting away as synonymous. Because then we start doing things like trying to rationalize why a divorced person should be allowed to serve God when it isn't even a real issue.

I hope this helps.


Deut 24:1-4; Num 30:3-9; Lev 21:7, 10-15; 22:10-16; Ezra 10:2-3, 19; Isa 50:1; Jer 3:6-11; Mal 2:16; Matt 5:31-32 (note mistranslation in KJV); Matt 19:9; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18; Matt 19:1-12; Mark 10:1-12; 1 Cor 7:10-16

 

Come on...I'm divorced and remarried, and even I thought that was funny. :laugh: Nothing wrong with trying to lighten the mood a little bit. God wants to see you smile not frown ! Have a little fun in life.