DNA OF JESUS PART II

[Salty]

I am starting this thread on Behalf of "Armchair" as his thread got hijacked.

Lets keep this one on subject - any diversion (esp the so-called incarnation of Mary) WILL be deleted!

Now open for discussion

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Born of God; born of Mary.
Christ was true Man and true God. To deny His descent from Mary is the error of Melchiorism.

 

[canadyjd]

Born of God; born of Mary.
Christ was true Man and true God. To deny His descent from Mary is the error of Melchiorism.

Being formed, fully human and fully God, in the womb and then born shows descent from Mary. Being the son of Joseph (step father) shows descent from David.

That is how people in the ancient near east would have viewed it.

We shouldn’t apply our modern understanding of “DNA” and other biological science to be imposed upon this first century understanding.

It leads to error, imo.

If God believed the exact, scientific and biological information concerning the incarnation were important, He would have told us.

Perhaps He will give us all a lecture in heaven and explain it.

Peace to you

 

[Mike B]

To deny His descent from Mary is the error of Melchiorism.

This I agree with, as Jesus grew in Mary's womb for nine months. Unless Jesus did not have a
belly button (aka: umbilical cord), He drew all of His sustenance from Mary during that time.

 

[canadyjd]

This I agree with, as Jesus grew in Mary's womb for nine months. Unless Jesus did not have a
belly button (aka: umbilical cord), He drew all of His sustenance from Mary during that time.

Yes He did

 

[Walter]

This I agree with, as Jesus grew in Mary's womb for nine months. Unless Jesus did not have a
belly button (aka: umbilical cord), He drew all of His sustenance from Mary during that time.

Exactly, calling the Blessed Virgin Mary a “surrogate mother” is not an accurate description of what Scripture teaches about her role in the Incarnation.

A surrogate carries a child for someone else. Mary did far more than simply “carry” Jesus. She conceived Him, carried Him in her womb, gave birth to Him, nursed Him, raised Him, and was truly His mother.

The angel Gabriel said:

“You will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.” Luke 1:31

Notice the language: “conceive in your womb and bear a son.” Mary was not merely providing a womb.

Jesus did not merely pass through Mary as though she were simply a vessel. The eternal Word truly took human flesh from her. Mary gave Him His humanity, while He remained eternally divine.

So let us not reduce motherhood to simply “giving birth.” A mother does not become a mother merely because of the moment of delivery. Mary carried Jesus, gave birth to Him, nursed Him, cared for Him, raised Him, and remained faithfully united to Him—even standing beneath His Cross.

Mary is not a surrogate. She is the Mother of Jesus. And Jesus is God.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

From a practical standpoint, all DNA comes from God and God is sovereign over the composition of such DNA.

With all that said, 26 of Jesus's chromosomes came from Mary and the other 26 came from God through the supernatural incarnation. The scriptures are clear that "a virgin shall conceive..." meaning that Mary's ovum became a complete zygote of which became God manifest in the flesh. I do not believe that Mary's ovum was fertilized with some divine "sperm" or whatever. God simply had to speak (or decree) the XY chromosomes into existence.

I can appreciate the comments of those saying there shouldn't be so much concern over DNA and that the scriptures do not mention such but the fact of the matter is that the scriptures speak nothing of molecular biology now does it? Does this mean we should just ignore it or do we believe the statement that "all truth is God's truth?" If Jesus's earthly ministry was in this present age, you had better believe that DNA tests would come up whereby Jesus could prove his lineage. I do not believe Jesus would submit himself to such testing though as the destiny of his first coming was the cross and not the throne. But if one were to do so, I believe that his DNA would show a clear familial relationship with the house and lineage of David.

We often look for "Natuiralistic" explanations for supernatural events in the scriptures and such is the foundation for liberal and modernistic thinking. We do not need to explain how God took Adam's rib (having XY chromosomes) to make Eve (having XX chromosomes). What we do know is that God has formulated man out of the dust of the earth and he arranged the molecular composition according to his sovereign will and good pleasure.

 

[canadyjd]

From a practical standpoint, all DNA comes from God and God is sovereign over the composition of such DNA.

Agreed

With all that said, 26 of Jesus's chromosomes came from Mary and the other 26 came from God through the supernatural incarnation.

That means s speculation. God did not have to use 26 chromosomes from Mary

The scriptures are clear that "a virgin shall conceive..." meaning that Mary's ovum became a complete zygote of which became God manifest in the flesh.

That is applying a modern understanding of biology to this event.

I do not believe that Mary's ovum was fertilized with some divine "sperm" or whatever. God simply had to speak (or decree) the XY chromosomes into existence.

Or….. God simply spoke the “zygote” into existence without using Mary’s DNA and implanted it in her womb.

That in no way affects the scripture concerning a virgin being with child. She conceived and bore a child by the power of God.

I can appreciate the comments of those saying there shouldn't be so much concern over DNA and that the scriptures do not mention such but the fact of the matter is that the scriptures speak nothing of molecular biology now does it? Does this mean we should just ignore it or do we believe the statement that "all truth is God's truth?" If Jesus's earthly ministry was in this present age, you had better believe that DNA tests would come up whereby Jesus could prove his lineage. I do not believe Jesus would submit himself to such testing though as the destiny of his first coming was the cross and not the throne. But if one were to do so, I believe that his DNA would show a clear familial relationship with the house and lineage of David.

Of course, but where in scripture does it say Mary was of the house of David? Jesus was a descendant of David by Joseph, his stepfather. That is how a first century person would have viewed it.

We often look for "Natuiralistic" explanations for supernatural events in the scriptures and such is the foundation for liberal and modernistic thinking. We do not need to explain how God took Adam's rib (having XY chromosomes) to make Eve (having XX chromosomes). What we do know is that God has formulated man out of the dust of the earth and he arranged the molecular composition according to his sovereign will and good pleasure.

Agreed

Let me add that the focus on Mary has led to many errors, the most prominent being the “immaculate conception” of Mary as sinless.

Another is that Mary was a descendant of David, though I haven’t found scripture yet to support it.

Another is that Mary remained a perpetual virgin in conflict with scripture which clearly states she had at least 4 other sons and two daughters.

The most damaging is the “Co-Deemer” theology which is Satanic imo.

Peace to you

 

[Foxmeister]

I think it's foolish to delve into the DNA of Jesus. It's a fruitless pursuit. Our faith should not have us speculate an answer to such a question because the issue is non-important. Jesus came to die for our sins. The praying to saints is sacrilegious as well. Paul wrote in 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, "For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,"

 

[Eliyahu]

Exactly, calling the Blessed Virgin Mary a “surrogate mother” is not an accurate description of what Scripture teaches about her role in the Incarnation.

A surrogate carries a child for someone else. Mary did far more than simply “carry” Jesus. She conceived Him, carried Him in her womb, gave birth to Him, nursed Him, raised Him, and was truly His mother.

The angel Gabriel said:

“You will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.” Luke 1:31

Notice the language: “conceive in your womb and bear a son.” Mary was not merely providing a womb.

Jesus did not merely pass through Mary as though she were simply a vessel. The eternal Word truly took human flesh from her. Mary gave Him His humanity, while He remained eternally divine.

So let us not reduce motherhood to simply “giving birth.” A mother does not become a mother merely because of the moment of delivery. Mary carried Jesus, gave birth to Him, nursed Him, cared for Him, raised Him, and remained faithfully united to Him—even standing beneath His Cross.

Mary is not a surrogate. She is the Mother of Jesus. And Jesus is God.

Whose sperm was used for the ovum of Mary?
Because Ovum is like a New York city and requires only the sperm which is like a San Francisco. When they are combined it becomes a human embryo which is like the New York City with electrical lines, water supply lines, roads, traffic signals, gas pipe lines. When it settle on Uterus, all the lights are on, water and gas supplied, electric power is connected with the lighting fixtures, oxygen gas supplied for breathing, food supplied etc.
So, who supplied the sperm? Holy Spirit has no flesh. Father is a Spirit ( John 4:24) but has a limited presence as He has a Throne.
Who provided the Y chromosome as Mary had only XX chromosome, and Jesus had XY chromosome?

Eliyahu

 

[Reynolds]

Whose sperm was used for the ovum of Mary?
Because Ovum is like a New York city and requires only the sperm which is like a San Francisco. When they are combined it becomes a human embryo which is like the New York City with electrical lines, water supply lines, roads, traffic signals, gas pipe lines. When it settle on Uterus, all the lights are on, water and gas supplied, electric power is connected with the lighting fixtures, oxygen gas supplied for breathing, food supplied etc.
So, who supplied the sperm? Holy Spirit has no flesh. Father is a Spirit ( John 4:24) but has a limited presence as He has a Throne.
Who provided the Y chromosome as Mary had only XX chromosome, and Jesus had XY chromosome?

Eliyahu

Scripture is plain that it was The Holy Spirit. If He can create the Universe, he can create sperm.

 

[Eliyahu]

Scripture is plain that it was The Holy Spirit. If He can create the Universe, he can create sperm.

Holy Spirit is a Spirit. He doesn't produce any flesh. If God did so, it becomes the same situation of Nephilim ( Genesis 6:4) God hated the inter-marriage between the angels and women. Pagan gods may marry human beings.
Eliyahu

 

[Mike B]

Holy Spirit is a Spirit. He doesn't produce any flesh.

The Holy Spirit is the Lord, same as Jesus and God the Father. He can do anything He wishes.

 

[Salty]

Holy Spirit is a Spirit. He doesn't produce any flesh.

Yet, God - the Father produce Adam in the flesh!

 

[Reynolds]

Holy Spirit is a Spirit. He doesn't produce any flesh. If God did so, it becomes the same situation of Nephilim ( Genesis 6:4) God hated the inter-marriage between the angels and women. Pagan gods may marry human beings.
Eliyahu

How was Adam created?