Do all Baptist denominations believe in OSAS?

[TCassidy]

Here's the gist of my post:
OSAS and Conditional Security agree...no works, no heaven.

Untrue.

Here's my assertion again - OSAS and Conditional Security agree that if you have no works, you will die a second death in hell.

Still untrue.

 

[JamesL]

Untrue.

Still untrue.

At least your rebuttal actually pertained to the gist of my post

 

[Darrell C]

Disdain prior to your post? Of course I did. But not toward you. My disdain is toward 2 groups who pretend they're opposed to each other, but both systems lead to the same end.

Oh ho, so the response was disinterest, how interesting.

It's funny how you can deny my response when you admit you didn't even read it.

But then your rebuttal....
You wrote at least twice that I was in error, then hardly anything you wrote even remotely pertained to my post.

Everything said was on point, and had you read it you would know that. That you saw "in error" gives rise to the thought that the response was in fact anger.

Here's the gist of my post:
OSAS and Conditional Security agree...no works, no heaven.

And that is not only error, it is ignorant.

That you cannot distinguish between Sola Fide and works-based mentalities should be rather embarrassing, lol.

But because you create your own premises, your conclusion can be whatever you want it to be, right?

And I didn't read anything beyond your first sentence which related to that assertion. And your first sentence only halfway at that.

So how can you say that it was not relevant?

Here's my assertion again - OSAS and Conditional Security agree that if you have no works, you will die a second death in hell.

Doesn't equate to OSAS adherents seeing those works as salvific.

That is where your error lies.

There is a difference between how one believs men are made perfect and those who teach men are not made perfect, but have to work towards that perfection.

As I said, you should know that James, unless all your talk about understanding what it means to be made perfect is just parroted argument that is convenient when you want to argue with someone.

I have demonstrated my assertion in other threads, and I've demonstrated the fact that, to their credit, the CS group plainly states it while the OSAS group does everything they can think of to not give straight answers

You want OSASers to confess something that is reality in your mind only?

Interesting hobby you have there, James.

Now, if your reply addresses anything other than my assertion that the two camps agree, then you have successfully wandered into left field.

If I don't agree with you I am in left field. lol

All righty then.

Capisce?

Better than you know, amigo. lol


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Untrue.

Still untrue.

Why is it untrue?

Because you say so?

How about stating why it is untrue?


God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

Both groups are essentially saying the same thing. Either....

OSAS - you have faith and works to the end or you never were saved. Bottom line is that without works you go to hell

Or Conditional Security - you have faith and works to the end or you lose your salvation. Bottom line is that without works you go to hell.

Same error, different package

Actually, the truth is that the BIBLE itself, not Confessions/Creeds/Mt pastor. theologian of the month flavr club...

Makes it quite clear that saving faith will be evidence by some amount of change in a person lifestyle, and while NONE of us will show that in the same way, there will be some works to evidence that has happened!

Believe it was John Calin who stated that we are saved by faith alone, but thew faith that is without works at all is not a saving one!

 

[JamesL]

Why is it untrue?

Because you say so?

How about stating why it is untrue?

God bless.

Heck,
How about YOU state why. All you've done is tell me I'm wrong, I'm ignorant, I'm fabricating, accuse my motives and sincerity, accuse me of being angry, accuse me of not reading your post (when in fact I read that useless drivel no less than 4 times before I compared you to Matthew Henry)...

....now, WHY have you done that? I don't know, and don't care to know. And it would be nice if you would stop trying to discern my thoughts and motives. If you were to actually take up the point and address it.

And disagreeing with me doesn't put you in left field - but talking about everything but the issue does put you in left field. C'mon back to the infield. Let's talk about the issue, not me

 

[JamesL]

If anyone is interested, here's a thread very pertinent to my assertion....

http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/belief-obedience-and-action.97536/

It's a thread started by Martin Marprelate. And in his corner is Iconoclast (who in multiple posts mentioned obedience and endurance as necessary to enter heaven - just like an Arminian).

Also in his corner is Internet Theologian - who incidentally was referred to as "P4T" on page 2, and didn't seem to bat an eyelash.

See if these avowed TULIP adherents don't sound exactly like Arminians when they start talking about the necessity of works.

I also made my assertion in that thread. See if I was just making up what I wanted

 

[JamesL]

Here's another thread where my assertion was made, and Van perpetrated the same dance around a couple of very simple questions, upholding the very Calvinism he pretends to despise....

https://www.baptistboard.com/threads/law-liberty-the-definition-of-legalism.86795/

 

[Darrell C]

Heck,
How about YOU state why.

I already have.

I actually agree with him, but feel he should do more than just make the assertions.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

All you've done is tell me I'm wrong, I'm ignorant, I'm fabricating, accuse my motives and sincerity, accuse me of being angry,

And none of this is true?

I addressed your statements and showed why I saw error. As far as being ignorant, not sure I made a direct statement, but rather questioned your lack of understanding concerning the perfecting of the saints in a context of progressive sanctification.

I was pretty specific about the error of confusing salving faith and faith in our walk. And I will say again, you imposing into the beliefs of OSASers that which is not there is only a reality in your mind, there to help you justify your position.

OSAS, Eternal Security, nor Perseverance do not teach license to sin.

accuse me of not reading your post

You accused yourself:

And I didn't read anything beyond your first sentence which related to that assertion. And your first sentence only halfway at that.

(when in fact I read that useless drivel no less than 4 times before I compared you to Matthew Henry)...

Yeah...that hurts. To be compared to Henry...

Still, I can only go on what you say...

And I didn't read anything beyond your first sentence which related to that assertion. And your first sentence only halfway at that.

You call it useless drivel, and irrelevant, yet you do not show why it is irrelevant. This, like the member above, is what is useless...simply making an assertion and thinking that this somehow contributes to the discussion.

....now, WHY have you done that?

BEcause you are in error.

Didn't I say that already?

You are making a false accusation and it is no better than those who say everyone who embraces the Pre-Tribulation Rapture got their views from Darby.

It's a false charge, and shame on you for entertaining such error.

I don't know, and don't care to know.

Then why ask?

But, if you are okay with making assertions, and don't care if anyone understands why you make them, fine. Perhaps it may be that is why so few on this board understand what Perfection means. You say you believe the Doctrine of Perfection often, but not sure how you can when you think OSAS teaches works-based salvation. The two are mutually exclusive.

And it would be nice if you would stop trying to discern my thoughts and motives.

Hey thanks. For the compliment and the honesty.

If you were to actually take up the point and address it.

Been there done that.



The ball is in your field now.

And disagreeing with me doesn't put you in left field - but talking about everything but the issue does put you in left field.

Then it becomes clear...I am still up to bat.

C'mon back to the infield. Let's talk about the issue, not me

Sorry, just waiting for the right pitch. Look over your shoulder, see that wall way back there...that's where it's going. Over it.




God bless.