Featured Do All Calvinists Hold that regeneration seperate from saved by God?

The mental gymnastics Calvinists will go through to deny scripture is fascinating isn't it?

They will usually look for a single word in scripture they can redefine or wrest to make their doctrine work.

Lousy theologians, but they would make fantastic lawyers or politicians. :laugh:

 

John 1:13 and Romans 9:16 shoots that right outta the H2O, Brother.

 

No it doesn't. You cannot separate John 1:12 from 1:13.

Again, in your view, you believe verse 13 is teaching that God must make a man reborn again so that he is able to receive Jesus and believe on his name, so that then God can give him the power to "become" a son of God.

Now that is plain dumb, you are teaching that a person can be "born of God" and not yet be a "son of God", even if it is only for a few seconds.

Of course, you have real problems with a guy like Cornelius who obviously believed in God and did many righteous works for YEARS before he heard the gospel and believed on Jesus and became a son of God. KY recognizes this, and in his view Cornelius had to be "born again" for years before he was a "son of God". That's dumb.

And now YOU are arguing that being born of God and being a son of God are different things.

And if God chooses to save those that choose to believe on Jesus, that is his prerogative Willis. And that is exactly what Jesus says in Mark 16:16.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Jesus said persons who believe will be saved, persons who do not believe will be damned.

God is calling all the shots Willis.

 

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Agree! The passage ILLUSTRATES the very theme of Jn 3, one must first be born from above before one can enter or even see the kingdom of God. V 13 shows that God had already wrought within those 'being saved' in v 12, as in:

But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God. Jn 3:21

"It behoveth you to be born from above."

The term 'sons of God' is used in contrast to 'children of God'. Receiving Christ, belief and obedience of the gospel, gives them the potential to grow from children of God to becoming sons of God. 'Sons of God' denotes maturity in this context.

"..."The difference between believers as "children of God" and as "sons of God" is brought out in Rom. 8:14-21. The Spirit bears witness with their spirit that they are "children of God," and, as such, they are His heirs and joint-heirs with Christ. This stresses the fact of their spiritual birth (vv. 16, 17). On the other hand, "as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God," i.e., "these and no other." Their conduct gives evidence of the dignity of their relationship and their likeness to His character." (Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testaments Words, by W.E. Vine, pp. 585)..."

The Difference Between Sons of God & Children of God

You make a big kadoo over nothing Winman. In no way does Jn 1:12,13 support your extreme humanistic view against God's sovereign grace. You need to accept it and get over it.

 

Pure baloney.

You are arguing the ridiculous position that a person can be "born of God" and yet not be a "son of God".

Now, if you want to convince yourself that such a ridiculous argument is true, there is nothing I can do about that. Nevertheless, this argument is obscene.

The moment you are born of God you are a child of God and a son of God, just as the moment you were physically born you were a child of your parents and a son of your parents. You can't separate these things as you NEED to do to make your false doctrine work.

I am amazed that seemingly intelligent people can fall for such stupid arguments.

 

Brother jbh28 is calvinistic, and he doesn't believe in pre-faith regeneration, unless he's changed that belief...