do ANY Arminians Hold that ANY In OT righteous By keeping Law?

[BobRyan]

the bilical meaning invest inthe term Sabbath NOT what the SDA see it as being,

Since you quote no Bible and no SDA to make your point - it is simply another "accusation".

But I can quote the Bible where IT says "the seventh day is the Sabbath" Ex 20:8-11. And that is what SDAs say.

And even the Baptist Confession of Faith says that the first day of the week is Sunday and the last day of the week is the day that was kept from Eden until the cross.

You claim these facts are not in agreement in some odd way. Feel free to provide support for your accusation.

Because on these points there is agreement.

There are other points about bending the 4th commandment to point to Sunday after the cross (As even D.L. Moody appears to promote) where I do not agree with them.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

You asked why I keep referring to the Baptist Confession of Faith, C.H. Spurgeon and D.L. Moody --

I responded.

============================================


well - just "the obvious".

1. That both of those sources agree that the 4th commandment as given by God in the OT is Saturday - the 7th day of the week (though sometimes they like to call it the "last day of the week" so people won't notice that this is in fact the 7th day of the week).

2. Both of them admit that the 4th commandment was binding on all mankind in Eden and remains so - to this very day.

So while I differ with their wild notion that the 4th commandment can be "bent" to point to Sunday after the cross. I still think they get those first two points right.

Just like I agree that Baptists get the believer's Baptism doctrine correct even though they are dead wrong on OSAS.

Just because I differ with one point does not mean I have to blindly throw everything else they say out the window.

And of course it stunts the knee-jerk hallow and oft repeated response that "only I" would notice that the TEN Commandments are the moral law of God and have been binding on all mankind since Eden.


Obviously.

And of course they have dozens of Bible texts - making that case for the Commandments of God.

=============================================

Then you responded with the nonsequitur

the bilical meaning invest inthe term Sabbath NOT what the SDA see it as being,

In my list above I never claim that the Sunday keeping sources I listed refused to bend the Sabbath to point it away from the "seventh day" as stated in the Sabbath Commandment Ex 20:8-11. They in fact do edit it to point to the first day of the week but only after the cross, while admitting that from Eden to the Cross it applied to all mankind - and God directed that it be observed as the 4th Commandment states -- on "the seventh day".

Their approach allows them to claim the force of law - the force of God's Authority - for Sunday as "Sabbath" not merely a "preference" for a day to go to church.

Did you have some "other" wording for the 4th commandment you wanted to try out?

In any case the sources listed affirm the TEN Commandments as the MORAL LAW of God - applicable to all mankind even under the New Covenant from Eden to this very day.

I thought at one time you said you were not happy with that conclusion.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[The Biblicist]

You asked why I keep referring to the Baptist Confession of Faith, C.H. Spurgeon and D.L. Moody --

I responded.

============================================


well - just "the obvious".

1. That both of those sources agree that the 4th commandment as given by God in the OT is Saturday - the 7th day of the week (though sometimes they like to call it the "last day of the week" so people won't notice that this is in fact the 7th day of the week).

2. Both of them admit that the 4th commandment was binding on all mankind in Eden and remains so - to this very day.

So while I differ with their wild notion that the 4th commandment can be "bent" to point to Sunday after the cross. I still think they get those first two points right.

Just like I agree that Baptists get the believer's Baptism doctrine correct even though they are dead wrong on OSAS.

Just because I differ with one point does not mean I have to blindly throw everything else they say out the window.

And of course it stunts the knee-jerk hallow and oft repeated response that "only I" would notice that the TEN Commandments are the moral law of God and have been binding on all mankind since Eden.


Obviously.

And of course they have dozens of Bible texts - making that case for the Commandments of God.

=============================================

Then you responded with the nonsequitur



In my list above I never claim that the Sunday keeping sources I listed refused to bend the Sabbath to point it away from the "seventh day" as stated in the Sabbath Commandment Ex 20:8-11. They in fact do edit it to point to the first day of the week but only after the cross, while admitting that from Eden to the Cross it applied to all mankind - and God directed that it be observed as the 4th Commandment states -- on "the seventh day".

Their approach allows them to claim the force of law - the force of God's Authority - for Sunday as "Sabbath" not merely a "preference" for a day to go to church.

Did you have some "other" wording for the 4th commandment you wanted to try out?

In any case the sources listed affirm the TEN Commandments as the MORAL LAW of God - applicable to all mankind even under the New Covenant from Eden to this very day.

I thought at one time you said you were not happy with that conclusion.

in Christ,

Bob

The Creation Sabbath is "the seventh day" but that expression has its meaning and only connecton with six working days which preceded it as a day of rest. It has no other connection. Furthermore, neither those particular six working days, or the Person working those six days, nor the Seventh Day Sabbath can ever be repeated or reduplicated historically as they are unique to history. Hence, the meaning or explanation of "the seventh day" is restricted to that unique period in history rather than to any post-de-facto calender division. That is precisely why no Sabbath commandment includes any kind of post-de-facto calender application but uses only one historical reference point when no calendar division of time existed - creation.

Therefore, the calender "division" may have for its pattern this unique historical creation period but that period cannot possibly be defined, explainedby or restricted to any post-de-facto calender division of weeks. The Sabbath Law may be APPLIED to the post-de-facto calender week but cannot be restricted to the post-de-facto calender week. If it could be restricted to it, then, God could not APPLY Sabbath law to any other FRAMEWORK of time other than the post-de-facto 24/7 calender week but He does APPLY it beyond that framework (Lev. 23-25).

Thus by God's own example and application the Sabbath Law is BROADER in principle than any particular post-application or else God Himself would not only forbid but would restrict all applications of Sabbath Law to the 24/7 time frame.

That is precisely why Baptists used the langauge they do in their Confessions and statements because their language gives expression to the broader principle that is demanded by God's own application of the Sabbath Law which EXCEEDS the SDA or Jewish application.

The Creation "seventh day" in principle relates only to six preceding working days. Any day in the post-de-facto human calender can be sovereignly selected by God to be the Sabbath day or "the seventh day" just as long as it is preceded by six working days as it is "the seventh day" within that time frame regardless of where it is located in the post-de-facto human calender division precisely because the original seven days was not restricted to any calender division nor placed within calender division or defined by any such calender division.

 

[BobRyan]

The Creation Sabbath is "the seventh day" but that expression has its meaning and only connecton with six working days which preceded it

Indeed GOD's six days of work and God's 7th day of rest - are all sovereignly decreed and specified by God. (just like the TEN commandments). It is not up to man to select out a day of his own.

God specified the "seventh day" and so the "week" itself is HIS alone.

God calls for man to "observe that day" and not simply "make up a day of your own as long as you work six days first".

I think we both know that. God declares in Is 66:23 that "from Sabbath to Sabbath ...shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" - and declares this is the case going all the way to the New Heavens and New Earth.

It is forever a binding statute.

Not too surprising given that the Baptist Confession of Faith admits that the TEN Commandments are part of the "moral law of God" - with the "first FOUR" having to do with our duty to God.

The Sabbath commandment includes every specific reference to the WEEK as the Baptist Confession of Faith admits "The LAST day of the WEEK" according to that document.

the Sabbath Law is BROADER in principle than any particular post-application or else God Himself would not only forbid but would restrict all applications of Sabbath Law to the 24/7 time frame.

The fact that there are annual Sabbaths in Lev 23 does not obliterate the weekly Sabbath.

Nor does it open a door for man to mess around with the weekly Sabbath and change the day for it.

(Interesting how the Baptist Confession of Faith - section 19 gets into this subject along with section 22)

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is now off topic and is being closed.