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Do any of you feel raising hands in testimony is wrong
- Thread starter Dallasdid
- Start date
D
dianetavegia
Guest
Dallas, Jesus did it.
Diane
I'm touched when I see someone lifting their hands in praise. I see nothing wrong with it. I'm in a SBC church of 1,000 and there is usually one time in every service that someone raises their hands.
Diane
It depends on why they're doing it. Although hand raising is not practiced at most IFB churches (including mine), one cannot say that it is "wrong." On the other hand, Diane, most of the hand-raising does not fit either of the contexts you cite. I Timothy 2 specifically refers to men in prayer. Christ's gesture was a natural one that any speaker might use in addressing a crowd.
Note of interest: I was at the Bethlehem Conference for Pastors last year (great conference, I've gone the last 3 years). During the loud, rock type songs, hundreds had their hands in the air "in praise." During the traditional singing of "Holy, Holy, Holy" a handful had their hands in the air. Does the Holy Spirit move more when music has a rock beat, or is it possible that emotion and even the flesh is sometimes a factor?
Note of interest: I was at the Bethlehem Conference for Pastors last year (great conference, I've gone the last 3 years). During the loud, rock type songs, hundreds had their hands in the air "in praise." During the traditional singing of "Holy, Holy, Holy" a handful had their hands in the air. Does the Holy Spirit move more when music has a rock beat, or is it possible that emotion and even the flesh is sometimes a factor?
John Wells
New Member
"I've been walking with a big grin, singing with my eyes closed, lifting up my hands." - Mercyme
I do that every evening with my earphones plugged in on my "walks with the Lord," listening to praise and worship music!
You should see the looks I get and hear what the neighbors are saying about me!
Do some do it in vain? Absolutely. God looks at the heart in prayer and in worship, but as Diane says, it is perfectly scriptural to show outward signs, including raised hand(s), that reflect a heart in worship!
I do that every evening with my earphones plugged in on my "walks with the Lord," listening to praise and worship music!
You should see the looks I get and hear what the neighbors are saying about me! Do some do it in vain? Absolutely. God looks at the heart in prayer and in worship, but as Diane says, it is perfectly scriptural to show outward signs, including raised hand(s), that reflect a heart in worship!
Taufgesinnter
New Member
I don't think it is wrong, and it is found in Scripture, but I don't do it and get very nervous when anyone around me does it because I fear it means something Pentecostal is about to happen. I mean that not in the true scriptural sense but in the modern false-signs sense.
Some base their theology on preferences rather than scripture. I don't think it is necesary to raise hands or not raise hands. Personally I don't because I am not a very emotional person. I am reached mostly through my mind and little through emotion. I express my walk with God by sharing with others rather than through much emotion. But I know others are different and that's okay. Who am I to judge the servant of God in the way he serves and worships God. When I was in seminary the profesor asked each person to share the most worshipful time in their life. Very few named in church. As for me it has been how gracious God has been to me to bring someone to give me the good news and how it changed me life for time and eternity. I have had many privileges that I would have never experienced if it were not for God's grace.
I heard the late, great Dr. J. Vernon Magee say, "Friend! There's nothin' wrong with raising your hands! Just make sure they're HOLY hands!"
But here is the danger that I see--I've known folks that would raise hands in praise---man, they get um up higher than a platoon of surrendered soldiers---they wave um in the air--shut their eyes up tight to where no light is gettin' in---
Then when the service is over and Monday is here---they have the fouliest mouths, crueliest intentions, plans that do not square up with God! The same hands that are held up--hold up things like cigarettes and the like!
J. Vernon was right! You wanna raise your hands, thats fine! But make sure those hands raised come from a heart thats raised in holiness! If they're not, you're a liar! You are lieing to the folks around you when you raise your hands in holiness and your heart isn't!! Make sure that what is seen by others on the outside(you lifting your hands) equals what's going on in your hearts!
Brother David
But here is the danger that I see--I've known folks that would raise hands in praise---man, they get um up higher than a platoon of surrendered soldiers---they wave um in the air--shut their eyes up tight to where no light is gettin' in---
Then when the service is over and Monday is here---they have the fouliest mouths, crueliest intentions, plans that do not square up with God! The same hands that are held up--hold up things like cigarettes and the like!
J. Vernon was right! You wanna raise your hands, thats fine! But make sure those hands raised come from a heart thats raised in holiness! If they're not, you're a liar! You are lieing to the folks around you when you raise your hands in holiness and your heart isn't!! Make sure that what is seen by others on the outside(you lifting your hands) equals what's going on in your hearts!
Brother David
latterrain77
New Member
Hi Dallasdid. Yes, there is plenty that can be wrong with the typical practice by some in "lifting up" hands in public displays of prayer and puffery. The Bible makes reference to such outward designs of religiosity practiced by phonies (Matt. 5: 5-6). It says;
"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly." Matt. 5: 5-6 bold is mine
Those who participate in outward displays of "holiness" are people more interested in being the centerpiece of attention rather than making Christ the center of attention. They are desirous to be "seen of men" as being "holy" or "connected" (exactly as Matt. 5: 5-6 states). But they are not holy or connected at all. They are embarrassingly silly looking at best (and maybe much worse). Women could not possibly participate in such behavior in any event (1 Cor. 14: 34).
The LORD tells us that PRIVATE thought (enter into thy closet and shut the door) is the proper expression for the solemn thoughts of GOD's truly holy person. Only those with a flair for drama (or worse) pursue the folly of doing anything different.
The phrase "lifting up" hands in 1 Tim. 2: 8 is the Greek word "epairo" which means "exalt self." Obviously, a Christian is NEVER to "exalt the self" as we are to exalt Christ ONLY. So, we know immediately that this verse cannot be taken "literally" as so many do. However, when one looks at 1 Tim. 2: 8 in the spiritual sense, it is immediately seen that the phrase "lifting up" hands ("exalt self") makes sense. As our prayers are heard and answered by GOD, we are "lifted up" heaven ward and exalted in the spiritual sense (James 4: 10, Mark 1: 31, Mark 9: 27). This is precisely what occurs when a saved person prays to GOD quietly, without garish outward fanfare or other public displays of pomp and fluff. The outward stuff means that these people have ALREADY received their praise from men and accordingly NOT from GOD which would only mean that the person's prayers were not heard by GOD! (Matt. 6: 1). Who would want that?
Furthermore, even if it were physical (and it's not) then what does "lifting up" holy hands even mean? It is more likely to mean "lifting up hands" that are "hanging down" by one's side in a normal position and brought together in a prayerlike position in FRONT of a person (picture a person humbly praying with head bowed and hands together). By contrast, where does it say that such "lifting up" of hands should look like a "stick em up" robbery with hands and arms pointing straight up in the air like a victim in a holdup? The Bible says NOTHING about "arms" straight up in the air; a physical contortion that is necessary to effectuate the look and feel of what is commonly done today and referred to as "lifting up holy hands." The whole thing has a distinctly "1960's" Woodstock air about it (someone pass the tambourine and incense).
Finally, such physical behavior is often (though not always) associated with the "signs and wonders" mentality of so many fringe professing to be Christians who are not (Mark 13: 22). So, the perception of taufgesinnter is accurate, and accordingly should be avoided on that basis alone. Thanks! latterrain77
"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly." Matt. 5: 5-6 bold is mine
Those who participate in outward displays of "holiness" are people more interested in being the centerpiece of attention rather than making Christ the center of attention. They are desirous to be "seen of men" as being "holy" or "connected" (exactly as Matt. 5: 5-6 states). But they are not holy or connected at all. They are embarrassingly silly looking at best (and maybe much worse). Women could not possibly participate in such behavior in any event (1 Cor. 14: 34).
The LORD tells us that PRIVATE thought (enter into thy closet and shut the door) is the proper expression for the solemn thoughts of GOD's truly holy person. Only those with a flair for drama (or worse) pursue the folly of doing anything different.
The phrase "lifting up" hands in 1 Tim. 2: 8 is the Greek word "epairo" which means "exalt self." Obviously, a Christian is NEVER to "exalt the self" as we are to exalt Christ ONLY. So, we know immediately that this verse cannot be taken "literally" as so many do. However, when one looks at 1 Tim. 2: 8 in the spiritual sense, it is immediately seen that the phrase "lifting up" hands ("exalt self") makes sense. As our prayers are heard and answered by GOD, we are "lifted up" heaven ward and exalted in the spiritual sense (James 4: 10, Mark 1: 31, Mark 9: 27). This is precisely what occurs when a saved person prays to GOD quietly, without garish outward fanfare or other public displays of pomp and fluff. The outward stuff means that these people have ALREADY received their praise from men and accordingly NOT from GOD which would only mean that the person's prayers were not heard by GOD! (Matt. 6: 1). Who would want that?
Furthermore, even if it were physical (and it's not) then what does "lifting up" holy hands even mean? It is more likely to mean "lifting up hands" that are "hanging down" by one's side in a normal position and brought together in a prayerlike position in FRONT of a person (picture a person humbly praying with head bowed and hands together). By contrast, where does it say that such "lifting up" of hands should look like a "stick em up" robbery with hands and arms pointing straight up in the air like a victim in a holdup? The Bible says NOTHING about "arms" straight up in the air; a physical contortion that is necessary to effectuate the look and feel of what is commonly done today and referred to as "lifting up holy hands." The whole thing has a distinctly "1960's" Woodstock air about it (someone pass the tambourine and incense).
Finally, such physical behavior is often (though not always) associated with the "signs and wonders" mentality of so many fringe professing to be Christians who are not (Mark 13: 22). So, the perception of taufgesinnter is accurate, and accordingly should be avoided on that basis alone. Thanks! latterrain77
Absolutely not. Raising hands is simply a response to worship. If it is wrong to raise hands, then we need to ban other expressions of worship such as kneeling, standing, heads bowed, hands folded in prayer, singing, etc.
Some people in my church raise thier hands, most do not. Either way, it's not a problem and it should never be.
On the hand, it's okay not to raise your hands. I don't raise my hands. Why? Because it will draw attention to me and I'm not comfortable with that.
John Wells
New Member
I think you meant Matt 6:5-6! At least that’s the way my Bible reads. You know, I see a pattern with you. Always miss-stating what scripture says, and out of context. The subject is “lifting hands in worship,” and your entire premise is dealing with prayer, so Matt 6 doesn’t even apply.
Sounds mighty pious to me!
Spoken by someone who seems to consider himself equal with God (by knowing the heart of a man – 1 Sam 16:7, Acts 15:8). Keep your god in a box, but don’t impose such restrictions on me. Thank you!Still on the prayer thing! Take a look at:
I stretch out my hands to You; My soul longs for You, as a parched land. (Psalms 143:6)
Now if you look at someone raising their hands in worship (without claiming to know their heart and being judgmental), it’s just possible that their soul longs for God! I’m not talking about charismatic behavior, but rather the kind of worship taking place in many conservative churches today. Thank God the atmosphere in many churches is getting less “stuffy” and stoic, and more biblical.
John Wells
New Member
Lift up your hands to the sanctuary And bless the Lord. (Psalm 134:2)
I believe I'll do what God desires me to do and not worry what latterrain77 thinks of me!
I believe I'll do what God desires me to do and not worry what latterrain77 thinks of me!
Pete Richert
New Member
I can't believe everyone is making a big deal about this. Lift up your hands, put them on your head, put them in your pocket, put one in your pocket and one on your chest, clap them, fold them, WHO CARES! Whether your are truly worshipping God has nothing to do with where your hands are.
You know what, I don't close my eyes about 98% of the time when I pray. Most of that 98% is just as I pray this and that every other minute of the day, but even in church services I don't always close my eyes. I pray eaiser with my eyes open.
You know what, I don't close my eyes about 98% of the time when I pray. Most of that 98% is just as I pray this and that every other minute of the day, but even in church services I don't always close my eyes. I pray eaiser with my eyes open.
D
dianetavegia
Guest
Pete, we do the Jesus Hokey Pokey in Children's Church.
Put your right hand in, put your right hand out, put your right hand in and shake it all about. Let Jesus in your heart and He'll turn your life around... That's what it's all about!!
Too much legalism is bad....
Diane
Put your right hand in, put your right hand out, put your right hand in and shake it all about. Let Jesus in your heart and He'll turn your life around... That's what it's all about!!
Too much legalism is bad....
Diane
latterrain77
New Member
Hi JohnWells. You said; " I think you meant Matt 6:5-6!" Yes, you are correct. Thank you for pointing it out. It is sometimes tough trying to post comments on the BB while juggling a number of other things simultaneously. Thank you again for pointing it out.
You said; " Sounds mighty pious to me!" A little pious, yes. Mighty pious, no. Either way, it is sticking to the clear teaching of the LORD in Matt. 6: 5-6.
You said; "...Always miss-stating what scripture says," Not at all. But that is what Rome said about Martin Luther, John Calvin, etc. etc.
You said; "..and your entire premise is dealing with prayer, so Matt 6 doesn’t even apply." Prayer and praise are interchangeable in this instance. The common practice of "lifting up holy hands" is always done in connection with prayer and supplication by those performing it (at least this is true of the ones I've sadly witnessed).
You said; "Still on the prayer thing!..." Yes! (see above paragraph)
You said; "Take a look at: I stretch out my hands to You; My soul longs for You, as a parched land. (Psalms 143:6) This verse proves my point. Stretching out hands is NOT the same thing as "lifting up" arms. This verse pictures a humble man (my soul longs for you) in a weary state of mind (parched land) with his hands stretched out in front of him, his hands held together in prayer. By contrast, picture the hyper active guy seeking to be the center of attention in church, with his arms up in the air (like the expressions in the crowd when a field goal kicker successfully kicks the ball through the post in a football game). Did you ever go to a party when a guy puts a lampshade on his head? ... you get the idea - center of attention.
You said; " I’m not talking about charismatic behavior,..." I know your not.
You said; "...but rather the kind of worship taking place in many conservative churches today." The fact that such behavior takes place in "conservative churches today" only reminds me how different conservative churches are today then they were yesterday.
You said; " Thank God the atmosphere in many churches is getting less “stuffy” and stoic, and more biblical." When I want "non-stuffy" I'll go to a party. Church atmosphere should always be DECENT and orderly in the church (1 Cor. 14: 40). Not freestyle! Thanks. latterrain77
You said; " Sounds mighty pious to me!" A little pious, yes. Mighty pious, no. Either way, it is sticking to the clear teaching of the LORD in Matt. 6: 5-6.
You said; "...Always miss-stating what scripture says," Not at all. But that is what Rome said about Martin Luther, John Calvin, etc. etc.
You said; "..and your entire premise is dealing with prayer, so Matt 6 doesn’t even apply." Prayer and praise are interchangeable in this instance. The common practice of "lifting up holy hands" is always done in connection with prayer and supplication by those performing it (at least this is true of the ones I've sadly witnessed).
You said; "Still on the prayer thing!..." Yes! (see above paragraph)
You said; "Take a look at: I stretch out my hands to You; My soul longs for You, as a parched land. (Psalms 143:6) This verse proves my point. Stretching out hands is NOT the same thing as "lifting up" arms. This verse pictures a humble man (my soul longs for you) in a weary state of mind (parched land) with his hands stretched out in front of him, his hands held together in prayer. By contrast, picture the hyper active guy seeking to be the center of attention in church, with his arms up in the air (like the expressions in the crowd when a field goal kicker successfully kicks the ball through the post in a football game). Did you ever go to a party when a guy puts a lampshade on his head? ... you get the idea - center of attention.
You said; " I’m not talking about charismatic behavior,..." I know your not.
You said; "...but rather the kind of worship taking place in many conservative churches today." The fact that such behavior takes place in "conservative churches today" only reminds me how different conservative churches are today then they were yesterday.
You said; " Thank God the atmosphere in many churches is getting less “stuffy” and stoic, and more biblical." When I want "non-stuffy" I'll go to a party. Church atmosphere should always be DECENT and orderly in the church (1 Cor. 14: 40). Not freestyle! Thanks. latterrain77
latterrain77
New Member
Hi Pete. Thank you for your comments. You said; " I can't believe everyone is making a big deal about this." You know Pete, I used to think the same thing. And in one sense, you are correct; what's the big deal? However, Matt. 6: 5-6 is very clear that a man is not to make a public display of his prayers. This behavior is always done in connection with praying. These folks don't just lift up their arms in the sky and stand there in silence! In many cases (literally EVERY time that I have witnessed it) these folks were looking to be the center of attention rather than putting that attention on Christ. This is obviously the case when these folks try to encourage OTHERS to participate in their folly.
You said; " You know what, I don't close my eyes about 98% of the time when I pray..." You know what? Me too! Many of my prayers are "conversations" with GOD. However, if I started making a public display of myself, or bouncing off the walls while I was praying, I would consider it extremely offensive and highly disrespectful to GOD (Matt. 6: 5-6). Is this ALWAYS so? Well, maybe not. But every time that I have seen it, it has been 100% always so. Thanks PeteRichert! latterrain77
You said; " You know what, I don't close my eyes about 98% of the time when I pray..." You know what? Me too! Many of my prayers are "conversations" with GOD. However, if I started making a public display of myself, or bouncing off the walls while I was praying, I would consider it extremely offensive and highly disrespectful to GOD (Matt. 6: 5-6). Is this ALWAYS so? Well, maybe not. But every time that I have seen it, it has been 100% always so. Thanks PeteRichert! latterrain77
latterrain77
New Member
Hi Diane. Thank you for your comments. You said; " Pete, we do the Jesus Hokey Pokey in Children's Church." That's terrific Diane.
However, children doing the "hokey pokey" is quite a different thing than an adult male doing it (or something akin to it) with serious intent. Once those children grow up, they will no longer do the hokey pokey and will put away childish things (1 Cor. 13: 11). That's pretty much what I'm saying about the grown men who make public displays of themselves in a church setting. Thanks Diane!
latterrain77