KenH
Well-Known Member
www.the-highway.com/Decisional_Regeneration.html
[ September 30, 2002, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
[ September 30, 2002, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
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Just as Hodge did, I agree with the underlying premise. Emotional appeals to add numbers to a roll of "who got saved" is very damaging indeed. However, just as Peter in his sermon asked the people to make a decision, we must do the same. From what I've seen with my personal experience, the majority of people actually get saved during the message, as they deal with the Spirit's moving in their life. Walking up front is merely a way to initially confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord.Originally posted by Ken Hamilton:
Decisional Regeneration...
Regardless of whether you are a Calvinist or an Arminian, Revelation 3 is not descriptive of Jesus "standing outside" of a sinner's "heart." Rather, Rev. 3 is written to the Church of Laodicea. Context! Context! Context!The Arminian believes that the Drawing power of God - IS sufficient to allow EVEN the unregenerate heart to "See light" and have the REAL ability to "Choose life". In that unregenerate state - Supernaturally powered by God - the Soul HEARS the knocking at the door - and chooses to Let Christ IN. It is the model that Christ Himself describes in Rev 3 - Christ on the OUTSIDE knocking/Drawing/enabling those on the inside to HEAR, and to Choose, and to Open. But I suppose we could "redefine' terms in Rev 3 such that it no longer says what it "appears" to say
What if they hear the message take it to their heart as the truth but never go up in front and declare it? Does there not declaring it not make it so or must they confess it for it to be?... Brother GlenFrom what I've seen with my personal experience, the majority of people actually get saved during the message, as they deal with the Spirit's moving in their life. Walking up front is merely a way to initially confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord.
What if they hear the message take it to their heart as the truth but never go up in front and declare it? Does there not declaring it not make it so or must they confess it for it to be?... Brother GlenOriginally posted by tyndale1946:
Scott Emerson said: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />From what I've seen with my personal experience, the majority of people actually get saved during the message, as they deal with the Spirit's moving in their life. Walking up front is merely a way to initially confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord.
Decisional regeneration....Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
...
Hmm - context you say? What does the text say leading into these words about standing at the door?Rev. G
Regardless of whether you are a Calvinist or an Arminian, Revelation 3 is not descriptive of Jesus "standing outside" of a sinner's "heart." Rather, Rev. 3 is written to the Church of Laodicea. Context! Context! Context!
You said it for me Ray, Rev. 3:20 is dealing with the Church.While Revelation 3:20 is not dealing with the sinner receiving Christ in salvation, yet these believers though being chastened as the children of God, still needed a definitive renewal of their faith. God says in His Word that the best path to renewal for the individuals in this Laodicean Church was to acknowledge His voice, to unblock their individual hearts door, insuring a renewal of close fellowship with the triune Godhead.
Who said I was defending Calvinism, friend? Notice that I stated that regardless of your position, you have to remember context!!!I would argue - that you have gone way too far in your defensive position circling the waggons around Calvinism.
Well said!Revelation chapters 2-3 is dealing with the weaknesses of the seven churches and not contextually with individual believers or non-believers. He is giving an overview of the spirutal state of these churches.
Not if I understand you correctly. Those in Christ have been liberated from the bondage of sin. Those outside of Christ are still enslaved. Actually, let me modify my answer. The Lord regards the resolve of some sinners as to whether or not they will remain in unbelief. He regarded Pharaoh, He liberated Paul.If God respects our freedom of volition in restoration as Christians, He also regards the resolve of the sinner as to whether he believes or remains in unbelief.
Not if I understand you correctly. Those in Christ have been liberated from the bondage of sin. Those outside of Christ are still enslaved. Actually, let me modify my answer. The Lord regards the resolve of some sinners as to whether or not they will remain in unbelief. He regarded Pharaoh, He liberated Paul.Originally posted by Rev. G:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> If God respects our freedom of volition in restoration as Christians, He also regards the resolve of the sinner as to whether he believes or remains in unbelief.
Chappie, I know of no gentle way to say this. This statement is stupid! Why in the world would I be chasing the man around with a match, and why would I think I was doing the Lord's will doing it? That is nonsensical! I think I would be doing the Lord's will to proclaim the Gospel to the man and to seek to win him to Christ. Period. Watch your tongue, brother (Jas. 3).The day before Christ invited him into paradise, you would have been chasing him around with a match in your hand thinking that you were doing the lords will.
In the quote of Rev 3 - provided on page 1 of this thread - specifics about the 7th church were pointed out -- showing explicitly that this applied to the lost sinner. NONE of that CONTEXT was addressed in ANY of the posts that follow in their defense of Calvinism. It is as if "The TEXT itself" carries no weight with Calvinists. I urge a more careful accpetance of the Word in this case.Ray
Revelation chapters 2-3 is dealing with the weaknesses of the seven churches and not contextually with individual believers or non-believers
Actually, it is your flawed interpretation that carries no weight, friend. We are quite concerned about the meaning of the text itself.It is as if "The TEXT itself" carries no weight with Calvinists. I urge a more careful accpetance of the Word in this case.
Hey, Bob, would you explain that to your anti-Calvinist amigos in relation to Romans chapter 9. They say that salvation there is corporate and not individual. May you can convince them that salvation is always of individuals and not of groups.Originally posted by BobRyan:
But - as to the charge that the messges to the churches do NOT addres individual salvation - please note - CHURCHES are not "saved" - individuals are.
Hey, Bob, would you explain that to your anti-Calvinist amigos in relation to Romans chapter 9. They say that salvation there is corporate and not individual. May you can convince them that salvation is always of individuals and not of groups.Originally posted by Ken Hamilton:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BobRyan:
But - as to the charge that the messges to the churches do NOT addres individual salvation - please note - CHURCHES are not "saved" - individuals are.