Do Biden/Harris owe the world an apology?

[Van]

Here we are talking about uniting with the powers God warned us to guard against.

Here we see an effort to support the powers of darkness rather than oppose them. The claim is that if you vote for the lesser of two flawed powers of darkness, you are doing what God opposes. Pure Twaddle.

We are to do everything we can to stand firm against the powers of darkness.

One purpose of the church is to guard truth and oppose deception. We are to be intolerant of "false teachers."

The assertion that since we all fall short of the glory of God, we cannot take sides is demonic deception.

 

[Christforums]

I don’t follow your logic. Please explain.

The World by definition is the ideological opposition against G-d. The World as Jesus conveyed, loves its own.

 

[Van]

Luke 3:14 teaches the powers of darkness extort money. The weaponization of the Justice Department seems an effort to extort political opponents, stop opposing us or bad things will happen to you and those near you.

 

[Christforums]

Luke 3:14 teaches the powers of darkness extort money. The weaponization of the Justice Department seems an effort to extort political opponents, stop opposing us or bad things will happen to you and those near you.

The OT conveys if the principles are used, to not extort or elect capable men in which refuse a bribe.... . this has little to do in secular politics. Rename bribe Lobbying and no problems.

 

[Van]

The OT conveys if the principles are used, to not extort or elect capable men in which refuse a bribe.... . this has little to do in secular politics. Rename bribe Lobbying and no problems.

Sorry, but I do not think I understood your post.

1) Where in the OT does it teach the principle of not extorting others?

2) Where does the OT teach the principle of electing capable people whose character indicates they would not accept a bribe.

3) To what does "this has little to do in secular politics" refer. Is the claim believers are not to engage in opposing the powers of darkness?

 

[Christforums]

Sorry, but I do not think I understood your post.

1) Where in the OT does it teach the principle of not extorting others?

2) Where does the OT teach the principle of electing capable people whose character indicates they would not accept a bribe.

3) To what does "this has little to do in secular politics" refer. Is the claim believers are not to engage in opposing the powers of darkness?

Exodus 18:21, Deuteronomy 16:19, Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:... Thou shalt not wrest judgment; thou shalt not respect persons, neither take a gift: for a gift doth blind the eyes of the wise, and pervert the words of the righteous.

These have nothing to do w/ secularism. The Scriptures were in context given to a theocracy. The principles are only for the moral.

 

[Van]

Exodus 18:21, Deuteronomy 16:19, Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:... Thou shalt not wrest judgment; thou shalt not respect persons, neither take a gift: for a gift doth blind the eyes of the wise, and pervert the words of the righteous.

These have nothing to do w/ secularism. The Scriptures were in context given to a theocracy. The principles are only for the moral.

Thank you for clearly explaining your view to me.

And therefore, I can provide where I agree and where I disagree.

1) Exodus 18:21 NASB
“Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders of thousands, of hundreds,]of fifties, and of tens.

I agree, this verse clearly indicates OT believers should select leaders of good character, not likely to take a bribe.

2) Deuteronomy 16:19
“You shall not distort justice, you shall not show partiality; and you shall not accept a bribe, because a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and distorts the words of the righteous.

I agree, this verse clearly indicates OT leaders should not distort justice (i.e. weaponize Law enforcement) or show partiality, selective enforcement against opponents.

3) I agree, dishonest gain includes extorting from others what is not owed.

4) I disagree, the principles provided by your citations of the OT can be applied to our behavior within the secular world we live in. If we can chose between able God fearing people, and those openly opposing biblical doctrine, to carry out governing over us, we are obligated to choose able, God fearing people.

5) Yes, the principles were given to OT people operating under a "theocracy" but when we seek to find the embedded timeless principles we can apply to our lives here and now, that distinction does not preclude supporting governing leaders who seem to be more aligned with biblical principles such as freedom and honesty.

 

[Christforums]

4) I disagree, the principles provided by your citations of the OT can be applied to our behavior within the secular world we live in. If we can chose between able God fearing people, and those openly opposing biblical doctrine, to carry out governing over us, we are obligated to choose able, God fearing people.

No, you're attempting to redefine the World, the World by definition is the oppositional ideology against G-d. The descriptive, and prescriptive commandments were the effect from a cause of already rejecting G-d. When men had done what was right in their own eyes rather than obey from the beginning. Judges are not ideal nor is a monarchy. The Prophet Samuel clearly stated what would happen if for example a king was placed in power. Likewise, the prescriptive commandment to elect capable men who reject a bribe wasn't on about the whim of character witness assumptions of who was less likely or the lesser of two evils. A man is or is not righteous.

Lobbying is a bribe. One of the things from American history was evident. Among the 13 colonies the first thirteen presidents before the first Constitutional President was elected were limited in finance, nobody wanted the position, the accountability or responsibility because the position hadn't paid hardly anything. Likewise, the early amendments limited the pay for office.

Lobbying is a way of elevating the pay for personal agendas to sway sides. Lobbying is a bribe.

To reemphasize you're attempting to usher in a theocracy. The World by definition is oppositional. Ideally, from my perspective, called out might mean to leave the World. That is, rather than contribute for society, a notion from Nazi Germany which eradicated anybody that had not benefited society or their country. Consider, the Noahide covenant, the principle of such was to limit the corruption of mankind by electing capable men in which Moses at Sinai expounded. Noah was a preacher of righteousness and the flood was the result of the unchecked balance of depraved majority. The Secular World should be limited by oppositional checks and balances, framework in place made ineffective to slow down corruption. The last thing anybody should want is what is called political trifectas which politicize the check and balance system.

We, should not encompass the World. The World is the enemy, to say we and align ourselves together is in solidarity. Perhaps misplaced allegiance to a secular nation rather than G-d. The descriptive pledge in the OT of Israel was not to their flag or nation but to G-d the banner of their salvation. In other words, not to the Republic but to the Almighty above it.

 

[sdcoyote]

I will be skipping the Presidential vote this year...Trump made sure the abortion and gay marriage planks of the republican platform were removed and for that he should NOT be rewarded.

Harris/Walz are as bad or worse.

Still, my state will have a legalizing abortion constitutional amendment on the ballot. It is my duty to vote against that.

It also has a legalizing sports betting amendment as well.

I will have two things to vote against.

 

[Van]

No, you're attempting to redefine the World, the World by definition is the oppositional ideology against G-d. The descriptive, and prescriptive commandments were the effect from a cause of already rejecting G-d. When men had done what was right in their own eyes rather than obey from the beginning. Judges are not ideal nor is a monarchy. The Prophet Samuel clearly stated what would happen if for example a king was placed in power. Likewise, the prescriptive commandment to elect capable men who reject a bribe wasn't on about the whim of character witness assumptions of who was less likely or the lesser of two evils. A man is or is not righteous.

Lobbying is a bribe. One of the things from American history was evident. Among the 13 colonies the first thirteen presidents before the first Constitutional President was elected were limited in finance, nobody wanted the position, the accountability or responsibility because the position hadn't paid hardly anything. Likewise, the early amendments limited the pay for office.

Lobbying is a way of elevating the pay for personal agendas to sway sides. Lobbying is a bribe.

To reemphasize you're attempting to usher in a theocracy. The World by definition is oppositional. Ideally, from my perspective, called out might mean to leave the World. That is, rather than contribute for society, a notion from Nazi Germany which eradicated anybody that had not benefited society or their country. Consider, the Noahide covenant, the principle of such was to limit the corruption of mankind by electing capable men in which Moses at Sinai expounded. Noah was a preacher of righteousness and the flood was the result of the unchecked balance of depraved majority. The Secular World should be limited by oppositional checks and balances, framework in place made ineffective to slow down corruption. The last thing anybody should want is what is called political trifectas which politicize the check and balance system.

We, should not encompass the World. The World is the enemy, to say we and align ourselves together is in solidarity. Perhaps misplaced allegiance to a secular nation rather than G-d. The descriptive pledge in the OT of Israel was not to their flag or nation but to G-d the banner of their salvation. In other words, not to the Republic but to the Almighty above it.

Your unbiblical claims are demonic in origin.

1) Our gospel is to be preached in the whole world, referring to the society of fallen humanity. Thus that is the biblical definition of world in the statement the the principles of the OT can be applied to our behavior in the secular world. The claim that this "redefines" the World is false and odious.

2) Lobbying is not a bribe. We are to lobby the lost to be reconciled to God. Lobbying can be done for godly or godless purposes. Our God is a God of persuasion, not compulsion.

3) Defending democracy is not an effort to usher in a Christian theocracy. This claim is yet another falsehood of demonic origin. A secular government of the people, by the people and for the people allows the people to govern rather than elite dictators.

4) Did anyone say or suggest Christians should "encompass the World?" Nope We are to be "in the world" but not "of the world."

5) Did anyone suggest our allegiance should be toward our flag or the country it represents, rather than God? Nope, so yet another false charge.

Basically your post seems to be politically based nonsense.

I suggest you study the purpose of our church as presented in the New Testament.

 

[Christforums]

Your unbiblical claims are demonic in origin.

1) Our gospel is to be preached in the whole world, referring to the society of fallen humanity. Thus that is the biblical definition of world in the statement the the principles of the OT can be applied to our behavior in the secular world. The claim that this "redefines" the World is false and odious.

2) Lobbying is not a bribe. We are to lobby the lost to be reconciled to God. Lobbying can be done for godly or godless purposes. Our God is a God of persuasion, not compulsion.

3) Defending democracy is not an effort to usher in a Christian theocracy. This claim is yet another falsehood of demonic origin. A secular government of the people, by the people and for the people allows the people to govern rather than elite dictators.

4) Did anyone say or suggest Christians should "encompass the World?" Nope We are to be "in the world" but not "of the world."

5) Did anyone suggest our allegiance should be toward our flag or the country it represents, rather than God? Nope, so yet another false charge.

Basically your post seems to be politically based nonsense.

I suggest you study the purpose of our church as presented in the New Testament.

And that was what triggered the ignore button. I love it.

I'd just love for somebody to talk that way to me face to face, choirboy.

Take it to the steps of the White House.

 

[Van]

1) Our gospel is to be preached in the whole world, referring to the society of fallen humanity. Thus that is the biblical definition of world in the statement the the principles of the OT can be applied to our behavior in the secular world. The claim that this "redefines" the World is false and odious.

2) Lobbying is not a bribe. We are to lobby the lost to be reconciled to God. Lobbying can be done for godly or godless purposes. Our God is a God of persuasion, not compulsion.

3) Defending democracy is not an effort to usher in a Christian theocracy. This claim is yet another falsehood of demonic origin. A secular government of the people, by the people and for the people allows the people to govern rather than elite dictators.

4) Did anyone say or suggest Christians should "encompass the World?" Nope We are to be "in the world" but not "of the world."

5) Did anyone suggest our allegiance should be toward our flag or the country it represents, rather than God? Nope, so yet another false charge.

Basically your post seems to be politically based nonsense.

I suggest study of the purpose of our church as presented in the New Testament.

Acts 2:42 could be considered a purpose statement for the church: “They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.” According to this verse, the purposes/activities of the church should be 1) teaching biblical doctrine, 2) providing a place of fellowship for believers, 3) observing the Lord’s supper, and 4) praying.[from Got Questions]

​

 

[Paul from Antioch]

Bros & Sis's Y don't ALL (ME 2!) Call 4 a time out! Let's calm down the rhetoric on ALL sides 4 a sec or 2 ..... As Lee Greenwood sang, "I'm PROUD (oops! ....That is a GOOD kinda "PRIDE"! ) 2 B an AMERICAN (or whatever country U B from) .... Where at least I KNOW I'm free!)) ..... WE R ALL SINNERs!! If U find a 100% per cent SINLESS candidate, I jest betcha he/she will somehow / some way NOT be running 4 the Oval Office this November!! Rodney King was wrong in many ways, but he (supposedly) said: "Can't we ALL jest GET ALONG??!!" .... No donkey or elephant (or any other creature 4 that matter) will ever be a 100% sinner. "We've ALL come (far) short of sinless perfection. That's Y our SINLESS Savior came to us (We didn't come to Him, BTW!) & shed HIS BLOOD to redeem us all! "WE" often say or do things that (in hind sight we shouldn't!!) for which ALL ("ALL" means ALL!!) are unkind &/or thoughtless. NO HUMAN politician will EVER please ALL of us! ....ONLY the King of Kings & LORD of LORDs is 110% PERFECT!! .... Let's quit the back bitting & name calling!! & act like Christians SHOULD! ....Let's Be thankful that WE DO have the opportunity 2 vote (& elect) our leaders! MOST other countries DON'T have ANY say over who's "Running the Show"!!! .... It's OK 2 agree 2 dis-agree on some things.... That RIGHT was given to us by Our Father Who art in heaven & paid for by His Son Jesus!! BTW, we're NOT electing a PASTOR of the US of A!! Just the POTUS!! Men & women died so that we have this GOD - GIVEN right!!! "Selah!!" Another country singer put it this way: "THEY made it to Arlington (or whatever their burial ground may be!). .....I'm reminded of the LAST verse of the US of A's national anthem : "O thus be it ee'r when FREE men shall stand ... between their loved homes and the war's desolation! BLESS the GOD who hast made & preserved US a nation! .... Then conquer we must when OUR CAUSE it is JUST! And THIS be our motto: "IN God is OUR TRUST!' .... And the Star-Spangled Banner, in TRIUPH shall wave, O'er the LAND of the FREE, and the HOME of the Brave!!" .... SELAH!! ..

 

[JonC]

I will be skipping the Presidential vote this year...Trump made sure the abortion and gay marriage planks of the republican platform were removed and for that he should NOT be rewarded.

Harris/Walz are as bad or worse.

Still, my state will have a legalizing abortion constitutional amendment on the ballot. It is my duty to vote against that.

It also has a legalizing sports betting amendment as well.

I will have two things to vote against.

I think the decision to remove those issues (really the only moral issues involved) were to get votes. I truly believe both sides will change their "values" at a drop of a hat if it meant a better chance to gain power.

In the past the only reason I voted (my "pet" issue) was abortion.

I realized, however, that there were times when the GOP controlled all three branches and had a majority in the SCOTUS without doing anything about abortion.

The party itself is split on the issue.
But ultimately it is about simply gaining power.

 

[percho]

I will be skipping the Presidential vote this year...Trump made sure the abortion and gay marriage planks of the republican platform were removed and for that he should NOT be rewarded.

Harris/Walz are as bad or worse.

Still, my state will have a legalizing abortion constitutional amendment on the ballot. It is my duty to vote against that.

It also has a legalizing sports betting amendment as well.

I will have two things to vote against.

However one or the other is going to run the country. Which of the two evils would you prefer? Which of the two evils will do the best for the country?

IMHO You vote for the lesser of two evils, you pray, "Thy kingdom come".

 

[percho]

In the history of voting has it not always been the lesser of to evils, relative to holiness. Has, one good, ever run for office, relative to holiness?

 

[Paul from Antioch]

I think the decision to remove those issues (really the only moral issues involved) were to get votes. I truly believe both sides will change their "values" at a drop of a hat if it meant a better chance to gain power.

In the past the only reason I voted (my "pet" issue) was abortion.

I realized, however, that there were times when the GOP controlled all three branches and had a majority in the SCOTUS without doing anything about abortion.

The party itself is split on the issue.
But ultimately it is about simply gaining power.

 

[Paul from Antioch]

2 me BOTH parties need a GOOD Ole thasin!! .... Maybe the donkey will "HEE HAW" on dat dare 'PHANT'! ....Or maybe

However one or the other is going to run the country. Which of the two evils would you prefer? Which of the two evils will do the best for the country?

IMHO You vote for the lesser of two evils, you pray, "Thy kingdom come".

 

[ChristB4Us]

www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/joe-biden-and-kamala-harris-owe-the-world-an-apology-for-the-perils-they-ve-created/ar-AA1r4M6A?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=4c2b2d5d9578423c92902d589e555c13&ei=38

Seems like it bears repeating.

1 Timothy 2:1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.