Do Christians Have an Inner Struggle with Sin or the Flesh?

[Internet Theologian]

Okay people. I am taking off my "cuddly old fuzz ball of a grandpa" hat and putting on my "Baptist Board Administrator" hat.

Knock off the personal stuff or I will close this thread, and any new threads that attempt to continue the cat fight.

Thomas Cassidy
Baptist Board Administrator

With all due respect to you and your position and ftr I will always call out the lying and name calling. That is what needs to end.

 

[Craigbythesea]

Hello PB.


While Paul is writing to Christians at Corinth he is as we know correcting a list of problems.

That which he deals with here is the one sin of sectarianism.

In this one sin......he rebukes them by saying.....they are behaving as mere men, natural,unsaved men, not those who profess to have the Spirit of God.

He is not identifying a new class of professed believer....a person who is DOMINATED by the flesh......no.

There is no such person.

There are false brethren....yes.

There are carnal in the heart false professors, yes.

There are real Christians who fail to mortify sin as they should for a short time....yes....

God alone knows the heart.

There are many in Mt 7 who are told depart from me, I never at anytime knew you.


Some study on chapters 2 and 3 will show Paul used 3 different Greek words that the English translates as carnal......

One of the words is a simile.......in other words.....you are acting as the unsaved, you are acting AS mere men devoid of the Spirit.

Not so my friend.


The Scriptures give warning to those living in sin, that they are deceived and are not converted, while at the same time there areno Scriptureswarning those who claim the truths of such self-deception as beingthemselvesdeceived for proclaiming this truth. But this is what you are claiming for the latter.


That you say the latter and not the former are deceived is against the doctrine of the Scriptures and is something to note. In fact, you are leveling charges to the latter and giving license to the former. Romans 3:8 is in order here.


Note 1 Corinthians 6:9ff; Galatians 5:19ff, and the tests of true/false conversion of 1 & 2 John. True converts don't live in sin (practice sin). You're preaching grave error here and are facilitating deception.

The “flesh” is the part of all human beings that makes them subject to temptation. Even Jesus, in His humanity, had His flesh to deal with (Rom. 1:3; Matt. 4:1). Moreover, all human beings, with the single exception of Jesus, have at one time or another yielded to temptation and thus have sinned. The Greek word used in the New Testament for this ‘flesh’ is σάρξ. Persons whose lifestyle is predominately characterized by the flesh are properly said to be “carnal.” The Greek word used in the New Testament for ‘carnal is σαρκικός, the cognate adjective of the noun σάρξ. However, persons whose lifestyle is predominately characterized by the spirit are properly said to be “spiritual.” The Greek word used in the New Testament for ‘spiritual is πνευματικός, the cognate adjective of the noun πνεῦμα.

I Cor. 3:1-3, Paul writes,

1. Κἀγώ, ἀδελφοί, οὐκ ἠδυνήθην λαλῆσαι ὑμῖνὡς πνευματικοῖς ἀλλʼ ὡς σαρκίνοις, ὡς νηπίοις ἐν Χριστῷ.
2. γάλα ὑμᾶς ἐπότισα, οὐ βρῶμα· οὔπω γὰρ ἐδύνασθε, ἀλλʼ οὐδὲ ἔτι νῦν δύνασθε,
3. ἔτι γὰρ σαρκικοί ἐστε, ὅπου γὰρ ἐν ὑμῖν ζῆλος καὶ ἔρις, οὐχὶ σαρκικοί ἐστε καὶ κατὰ ἄνθρωπον περιπατεῖτε;

1. And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.
2. I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;
3. for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? (KJV)

When the New Testament text of the KJV was revised in 1881 (the Revised Version), the use of the English word “carnal” was retained,

1. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ.
2. I fed you with milk, not with meat; for ye were not yet able to bear it: nay, not even now are ye able;
3. for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and walk after the manner of men? (RV)

The use of the English word “carnal” was also retained in the American Edition (the American Standard Version) of the RV,

1. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ.
2. I fed you with milk, not with meat; for ye were not yet able to bear it: nay, not even now are ye able;
3. for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men? (ASV)

However, when the New Testament text of the KJV was further revised in 1971, the English word “carnal” was replaced by “men of the flesh” in v. 1, and by “of the flesh” in v 3,

1. BUT I, brethren, could not address you as spiritual men, but as men of the flesh, as babes in Christ.
2. I fed you with milk, not solid food; for you were not ready for it; and even yet you are not ready,
3. for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh, and behaving like ordinary men? (RSV, 1971)

The independent New American Standard Bible similarly updated the language,

1. And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
2. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
3. for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? (NASB, 1995)


The English word “flesh” comes from the Old High German; the English word “carnal” comes from the Latin. The English word “carnal” is an adjective meaning related to or given to the flesh—the part of all human beings that makes them subject to temptation. The people addressed in 1 Corinthians are Christians; therefore the Bible expressly teaches in 1 Cor. 3:1-3 that some Christians are carnal.

 

[walkinspirit]

The “flesh” is the part of all human beings that makes them subject to temptation. Even Jesus, in His humanity, had His flesh to deal with (Rom. 1:3; Matt. 4:1). Moreover, all human beings, with the single exception of Jesus, have at one time or another yielded to temptation and thus have sinned. The Greek word used in the New Testament for this ‘flesh’ is σάρξ. Persons whose lifestyle is predominately characterized by the flesh are properly said to be “carnal.” The Greek word used in the New Testament for ‘carnal is σαρκικός, the cognate adjective of the noun σάρξ. However, persons whose lifestyle is predominately characterized by the spirit are properly said to be “spiritual.” The Greek word used in the New Testament for ‘spiritual is πνευματικός, the cognate adjective of the noun πνεῦμα.

I Cor. 3:1-3, Paul writes,

1. Κἀγώ, ἀδελφοί, οὐκ ἠδυνήθην λαλῆσαι ὑμῖνὡς πνευματικοῖς ἀλλʼ ὡς σαρκίνοις, ὡς νηπίοις ἐν Χριστῷ.
2. γάλα ὑμᾶς ἐπότισα, οὐ βρῶμα· οὔπω γὰρ ἐδύνασθε, ἀλλʼ οὐδὲ ἔτι νῦν δύνασθε,
3. ἔτι γὰρ σαρκικοί ἐστε, ὅπου γὰρ ἐν ὑμῖν ζῆλος καὶ ἔρις, οὐχὶ σαρκικοί ἐστε καὶ κατὰ ἄνθρωπον περιπατεῖτε;

1. And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.
2. I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;
3. for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? (KJV)

When the New Testament text of the KJV was revised in 1881 (the Revised Version), the use of the English word “carnal” was retained,

1. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ.
2. I fed you with milk, not with meat; for ye were not yet able to bear it: nay, not even now are ye able;
3. for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and walk after the manner of men? (RV)

The use of the English word “carnal” was also retained in the American Edition (the American Standard Version) of the RV,

1. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ.
2. I fed you with milk, not with meat; for ye were not yet able to bear it: nay, not even now are ye able;
3. for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men? (ASV)

However, when the New Testament text of the KJV was further revised in 1971, the English word “carnal” was replaced by “men of the flesh” in v. 1, and by “of the flesh” in v 3,

1. BUT I, brethren, could not address you as spiritual men, but as men of the flesh, as babes in Christ.
2. I fed you with milk, not solid food; for you were not ready for it; and even yet you are not ready,
3. for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh, and behaving like ordinary men? (RSV, 1971)

The independent New American Standard Bible similarly updated the language,

1. And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
2. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
3. for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? (NASB, 1995)


The English word “flesh” comes from the Old High German; the English word “carnal” comes from the Latin. The English word “carnal” is an adjective meaning related to or given to the flesh—the part of all human beings that makes them subject to temptation. The people addressed in 1 Corinthians are Christians; therefore the Bible expressly teaches in 1 Cor. 3:1-3 that some Christians are carnal.

Thats a good explanation brother its faithful to its biblical context. We often try to interpreted Scripture with prejudices or convictions we already have formed because of our theological point of view. The truth of the Bible is not confined in 5 points of Calvinism or Aminianism and you can add here to the list any man made system, even though they may contain biblical aspects of truth, they fail to present and grasp the whole impartial truth as it is in the Bible.

Returning to the subject of discussion about carnal Christians, according to Paul in 1 Corinthians there were those immature believers who were quarreling, being jealous and causing divisions In the local church in Corinth and it seems like they were in the majority, that's why Paul called them carnal. We see the same partiality today when we follow Augustine, Calvin, Wesley etc. And even though they were men of God used in their own time to influence not just their generation but the ones to come and they were instruments of rediscovering of certain biblical truths of the Bible, we are called to follow Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and hold fast to the apostolic teaching and doctrine that has been entrusted to us in the Bible, and not follow man made theological systems.

In the context of 1 Corinthians 3 we would say that the same thing is characteristic of many Christians today who swet about the little things and forget to focus on the big picture of fighting the war for Christ under the banner of Truth and in the power of the Spirit and God's mighty Word.

As it has been well said, "In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty and in all things charity." We are called to believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ and of the Apostles and follow a living person Jesus Christ our Lord, not a dead orthodoxy that suffocates the soul but Christ that liberates the heart, sets us free and makes us a new creation. Sound doctrine should be believed and preached and we should stand firm on the faith once for all delivered to the apostolic saints and to the true saints of God throughout all generations followers of the Lamb of God.


I'm getting out of the subject, my point is that carnal Christianity exists and its very evident today and many Christians excuse it with cheap grace and on the other side others deny it as a possibility in Christian life because their theological system does not allow it.

Recognizing it does not mean we condone it, its a spiritual discernment and whoever is in that state needs to examine themselves and repent and obey the Lord. In 2 Corinthians 7 the same Corinthian believers were convicted by what the Apostle told them and their godly sorrow led them to true repentance and forgiveness ( they repented of their carnality, quarrelling, jealousies, divisions etc). God is faithful and merciful He will discipline his children and grant us repentance when we humble ourselves before Him so we can grow in grace and the knowledge of his Son and those who are truly his sons and daughters will persevere to this end.

Blessings,

 

[Craigbythesea]

Some study on chapters 2 and 3 will show Paul used 3 different Greek words that the English translates as carnal......

This statement is not true! In all of the New Testament, only two words are used to express the concept of carnality— σαρκικόσ and σάρκινος. The use of these two words in Hellenistic Greek shows that the meaning of the former cannot be easily distinguished from the latter. Moreover, in the Greek New Testament documents at 1 Cor. 3:1, manuscripts belonging to the Alexandrian text type use the word σάρκινος, but manuscripts belonging to the Byzantine text type use the word σαρκικόσ. In 1 Cor. 3:3, manuscripts belonging to both text types use the word σαρκικόσ. The New Testament in the NASB is translated from manuscripts belonging to the Alexandrian text type and attempts to distinguish between the two Greek adjective, giving us,

1. And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
2. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
3. for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

However, there are websites that confuse a third Greek adjective with σαρκικόσ and σάρκινος— the adjective ψυχικός. This third Greek adjective, however, has nothing at all to do with the concept of the ‘flesh’ as the part of all human beings that makes them subject to temptation, and thus it has nothing at all to do with the concept of ‘carnality’. Nevertheless, these less than accurate websites quote 1 Cor. 2:14-15,

14. But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
15. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.

and teach from them that, according to the Bible, there are only types of people—the “natural man” and the “spiritual man.” By manipulating the Scriptures, they argue that the “natural man” is the unregenerate (unsaved) man, and that the “spiritual man” is the regenerate (saved) man. The fact that Paul is admonishing these natural men to be more spiritually minded and hence better Christians seems to escape the notice of the owners of these websites. Moreover, we read in the 1 Cor. 15:44-46,

1 Cor. 15:44. it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45. So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.

In this passage, it is obvious that the adjective “natural” (ψυχικός) has absolutely nothing at all to do with carnality, and that Paul is writing of regenerate believers—that is, Christians!

Indeed, the Bible speaks of many kinds of people having many different characteristics, and those people who are regenerate believers—that is, Christians—may have lifestyles that are dominated by either the flesh or the sprit. Those Christians whose lifestyle is dominated by the spirit are spiritual Christians; Christians whose lifestyle is dominated by the flesh are carnal Christians. It is wrong; it is sinful; but it is a reality that many Christians live a lifestyle that is dominated by the flesh. They are carnal Christians.

One of the words is a simile.......in other words.....you are acting as the unsaved, you are acting AS mere men devoid of the Spirit.

No, a simile is a figure of speech often introduced by the words “like” or “as” in which two unlike things are compared. In 1 Cor. 3:2, the words “milk” and “solid food” are metaphors, but no similes are used in 1 Cor. 3:1-3.

(All quotations from Scripture are from the NASB, 1995)

 

[Iconoclast]

This statement is not true! In all of the New Testament, ony express the concept of carnality— σαρκικόσ and σάρκινος. The use of these two words in Hellenistic Greek shows that the meaning of the former cannot be easily distinguished from the latter. Moreover, in the Greek New Testament documents at 1 Cor. 3:1, manuscripts belonging to the Alexandrian text type use the word σάρκινος, but manuscripts belonging to the Byzantine text type use the word σαρκικόσ. In 1 Cor. 3:3, manuscripts belonging to both text types use the word σαρκικόσ. The New Testament in the NASB is translated from manuscripts belonging to the Alexandrian text type and attempts to distinguish between the two Greek adjective, giving us,

1. And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
2. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
3. for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

However, there are websites that confuse a third Greek adjective with σαρκικόσ and σάρκινος— the adjective ψυχικός. This third Greek adjective, however, has nothing at all to do with the concept of the ‘flesh’ as the part of all human beings that makes them subject to temptation, and thus it has nothing at all to do with the concept of ‘carnality’. Nevertheless, these less than accurate websites quote 1 Cor. 2:14-15,

14. But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
15. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.

and teach from them that, according to the Bible, there are only types of people—the “natural man” and the “spiritual man.” By manipulating the Scriptures, they argue that the “natural man” is the unregenerate (unsaved) man, and that the “spiritual man” is the regenerate (saved) man. The fact that Paul is admonishing these natural men to be more spiritually minded and hence better Christians seems to escape the notice of the owners of these websites. Moreover, we read in the 1 Cor. 15:44-46,

1 Cor. 15:44. it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45. So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.

In this passage, it is obvious that the adjective “natural” (ψυχικός) has absolutely nothing at all to do with carnality, and that Paul is writing of regenerate believers—that is, Christians!

Indeed, the Bible speaks of many kinds of people having many different characteristics, and those people who are regenerate believers—that is, Christians—may have lifestyles that are dominated by either the flesh or the sprit. Those Christians whose lifestyle is dominated by the spirit are spiritual Christians; Christians whose lifestyle is dominated by the flesh are carnal Christians. It is wrong; it is sinful; but it is a reality that many Christians live a lifestyle that is dominated by the flesh. They are carnal Christians.



No, a simile is a figure of speech often introduced by the words “like” or “as” in which two unlike things are compared. In 1 Cor. 3:2, the words “milk” and “solid food” are metaphors, but no similes are used in 1 Cor. 3:1-3.

(All quotations from Scripture are from the NASB, 1995)

The natural man.....is unsaved. That is even clear to Arminians. You are mistaken on both Corinthians passagesPaul wanted to address them a spiritual men but he said he could not speak to him as unto spiritual but as Unto carnal.
I posted links with two sermons and post number 35 if you listen to those two sermons that will help clear away Your misunderstanding

 

[DHK]

(EMTV) for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal, and walking according to human principles?

(ESV) for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Again, Paul was addressing the church at Corinth. There were many there who were unsaved in accordance to their walks. Say Syria sends a letter to the White House mocking us, saying they thought we were a christian nation, but by our actions, in their eyes we are no longer a christian nation. Was that to include the christians, too, or just the lost? The latter and not the former. That was the way Paul addressed that first letter to the Corinthian church.

 

[DHK]

Again, Paul was addressing the church at Corinth. There were many there who were unsaved in accordance to their walks. Say Syria sends a letter to the White House mocking us, saying they thought we were a christian nation, but by our actions, in their eyes we are no longer a christian nation. Was that to include the christians, too, or just the lost? The latter and not the former. That was the way Paul addressed that first letter to the Corinthian church.

1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

 

[Craigbythesea]

The natural man.....is unsaved. That is even clear to Arminians. You are mistaken on both Corinthians passagesPaul wanted to address them a spiritual men but he said he could not speak to him as unto spiritual but as Unto carnal.

No, Paul wrote,

1 Cor. 3:1. And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. (NASB, 1995)

The Christians living in Corinth were, using Paul’s words (as translated into English), both natural and carnal—but they were—according to the Apostle Paul—“infants in Christ” (νηπιοις εν χριστω, 1 Cor. 3:10). They were incapable of understanding or even accepting “the things of the Spirit of God”, but they were capable of accepting “milk,” and with that nourishment they had at least the potential to grow up out of their infancy, begin eating solid food, and become spiritual men.

It is very regrettable that many commentators on the Scriptures have gotten hung up on the Greek word ψυχικοςas used in secular literature rather than Paul’s use of the word in the context in which he used it. For a much better understanding of the passage, please see the 1,478 page commentary on 1 Corinthians by Anthony C. Thiselton in “The New International Greek Testament Commentary” series, pp. 267-295, published in 2000.

 

[Iconoclast]

As unto...

As unto

 

[Iconoclast]

No, Paul wrote,

1 Cor. 3:1. And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. (NASB, 1995)

The Christians living in Corinth were, using Paul’s words (as translated into English), both natural and carnal—but they were—according to the Apostle Paul—“infants in Christ” (νηπιοις εν χριστω, 1 Cor. 3:10). They were incapable of understanding or even accepting “the things of the Spirit of God”, but they were capable of accepting “milk,” and with that nourishment they had at least the potential to grow up out of their infancy, begin eating solid food, and become spiritual men.

It is very regrettable that many commentators on the Scriptures have gotten hung up on the Greek word ψυχικοςas used in secular literature rather than Paul’s use of the word in the context in which he used it. For a much better understanding of the passage, please see the 1,478 page commentary on 1 Corinthians by Anthony C. Thiselton in “The New International Greek Testament Commentary” series, pp. 267-295, published in 2000.

Listen to the sermons.....
Listen to the sermons and Learn Paul was saying I wanted to speak to you as spiritual men but he couldn't so he says I have to speak to as bad as carnal like it other words as unsaved men or babies

 

[Craigbythesea]

Listen to the sermons.....
Listen to the sermons and Learn Paul was saying I wanted to speak to you as spiritual men but he couldn't so he says I have to speak to as bad as carnal like it other words as unsaved men or babies

No, “as to infants in Christ.”

 

[DHK]

As unto...

As unto

(EMTV) for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal, and walking according to human principles?

(ESV) for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?

 

[Iconoclast]

No, “as to infants in Christ.”

CBS
It really is.not that hard.....let me paraphrase. ..
I wanted to speak to you as Spiritual about this issue.....but I could not......you are like babies, unsaved men, you are acting completely out of character, you are like rebellious morons you are like imbeciles so I could not address you as solid Christians....for when you argue over which person you prefer you are like mere unsaved men dominated by the flesh and unsaved....
He is rebuking them....not speaking about an optional Christian life of sin and rebellion.

 

[DHK]

As Dr. Pickering critiqued John MacArthur's book on the Gospel of Jesus Christ, he said:

3. The distinction commonly made between the carnal Christian and the spiritual Christian is invalid.

This is a familiar theme, particularly among Reformed theologians such as Lloyd-Jones, mentioned earlier. Their impression seems to be that if one admits to the existence of "carnal Christians" one is merely seeking to find a way to excuse the loose living of professing believers. MacArthur sees this distinction as intertwined with the teaching that there may be a difference between a person who is saved and a person who has decided to become a disciple. To him every believer is a "disciple."

In the first place, those who speak of "carnal" Christians are only employing the terminology of Scripture. Paul speaks of those believers who are "carnal" (fleshly,1 Cor. 3:1) and speaks of the evidence of such a condition in the verses that follow. While brethren may deny the existence of such an individual, we would venture to say that a considerable number of examples could be found in their own churches! One is not going to make "carnal" Christians vanish simply by demanding that saving faith include surrender to the Lordship of Christ. Even if that were done it would not guarantee that the new convert would submit to the Lordship of Christ when confronted with a specific demand. If he did not do so, he would become a "carnal" Christian, walking according to the flesh and not the Spirit.In his zeal to defend his view, we believe our brother has made some extreme statements which do not describe properly the vast majority of fundamental gospel preachers of our acquaintance. "Anyone who says he has 'accepted Christ' is enthusiastically received as a Christian, even if his supposed faith later gives way to a persistent pattern of disobedience, gross sin, or hostile unbelief" (p. 97). In his footnote explanation of I Corinthians 3:3 MacArthur does admit that the Corinthian believers were "behaving in a carnal way" (p. 97). Perhaps we have missed some subtle distinction, but we fail to see the difference between "behaving in a carnal way" and being a "carnal Christian."
http://rosesreasonings.blogspot.ca/2006/10/book-review-by-dr-ernest-pickering.html
The distinction is invalid.

 

[SovereignGrace]

CBS
It really is.not that hard.....let me paraphrase. ..
I wanted to speak to you as Spiritual about this issue.....but I could not......you are like babies, unsaved men, you are acting completely out of character, you are like rebellious morons you are like imbeciles so I could not address you as solid Christians....for when you argue over which person you prefer you are like mere unsaved men dominated by the flesh and unsaved....
He is rebuking them....not speaking about an optional Christian life of sin and rebellion.

When you baptize goats, what else would you expect?

 

[Iconoclast]

As Dr. Pickering critiqued John MacArthur's book on the Gospel of Jesus Christ, he said:

3. The distinction commonly made between the carnal Christian and the spiritual Christian is invalid.

This is a familiar theme, particularly among Reformed theologians such as Lloyd-Jones, mentioned earlier. Their impression seems to be that if one admits to the existence of "carnal Christians" one is merely seeking to find a way to excuse the loose living of professing believers. MacArthur sees this distinction as intertwined with the teaching that there may be a difference between a person who is saved and a person who has decided to become a disciple. To him every believer is a "disciple."

In the first place, those who speak of "carnal" Christians are only employing the terminology of Scripture. Paul speaks of those believers who are "carnal" (fleshly,1 Cor. 3:1) and speaks of the evidence of such a condition in the verses that follow. While brethren may deny the existence of such an individual, we would venture to say that a considerable number of examples could be found in their own churches! One is not going to make "carnal" Christians vanish simply by demanding that saving faith include surrender to the Lordship of Christ. Even if that were done it would not guarantee that the new convert would submit to the Lordship of Christ when confronted with a specific demand. If he did not do so, he would become a "carnal" Christian, walking according to the flesh and not the Spirit.In his zeal to defend his view, we believe our brother has made some extreme statements which do not describe properly the vast majority of fundamental gospel preachers of our acquaintance. "Anyone who says he has 'accepted Christ' is enthusiastically received as a Christian, even if his supposed faith later gives way to a persistent pattern of disobedience, gross sin, or hostile unbelief" (p. 97). In his footnote explanation of I Corinthians 3:3 MacArthur does admit that the Corinthian believers were "behaving in a carnal way" (p. 97). Perhaps we have missed some subtle distinction, but we fail to see the difference between "behaving in a carnal way" and being a "carnal Christian."
http://rosesreasonings.blogspot.ca/2006/10/book-review-by-dr-ernest-pickering.html
The distinction is invalid.

Pickering is also wrong on this....you have some company.
Every believer is a disciple. Pickering was an extreme dispensationalist.

 

[DHK]

When you baptize goats, what else would you expect?

Who does that?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Who does that?

The Corinthian church Paul wrote to.

 

[DHK]

The Corinthian church Paul wrote to.

Where does he say that specifically?