Do christians have to fear the white throne judgement?

[DeafPosttrib]

Amen.

Rev. 22:12 tells so very clear, that the rewards shall be given follow at second advent.

That why, Rev. 22:20 is my favorite verse. Christ promises us, He shall come again for sure, no delay. This is speak of the only ONE future coming at the end of the world.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Brother Bob]

Amen.

Rev. 22:12 tells so very clear, that the rewards shall be given follow at second advent.

That why, Rev. 22:20 is my favorite verse. Christ promises us, He shall come again for sure, no delay. This is speak of the only ONE future coming at the end of the world.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

And bring our reward with Him..........


Rev 22:12¶And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Its the judgement, not being judged. There is a difference.

A judge first judges someone and then passes down the judgement. So does the Lord.

BBob,

 

[BobRyan]

I think your answers are somewhat mis-worded. Believers receive or lose rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ not the Great White Throne Judgment.

Are you talking about the Judgment Seat of Christ?

It's the same thing. The Judgment seat is seen clearly in Daniel 7 -- the executive phase of that same judgment is seen in Rev 20.

In 2Cor 5 both good and EVIL deeds are spoken of -- the "reward for evil deeds" in scripture is NEVER said to be "less candy in heaven"

 

[EdSutton]

You telling me a gift is not a reward?

Show me the scripture saying the righteous will be judged, not be in the judgement of rewards.

You think the Lord don't know who He saved and who He did not, before He leaves Heaven? I thought the Lord knows all. But thats just me.

BBob,

Waiting for a scripture saying the righteous will be judged, not be in the judgement of rewards.

Rev 22:12¶And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (This is the judgement, and He will bringing the rewards). Show me where he will judge us here, before giving us our reward?

2 Corth:
10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Do you accept scripture or not? When did you do the things in the body, while you were living now and if He is bringing your reward, you think He does not know and already judged what you shall receive.

BBob,

What exactly are you talking about? I did not say any of what you are implying.

And as to a gift not being the same as a reward, yes. Did you ever give someone something as a gift? I have. Conditioned upon nothing. That is a gift.

Did you ever see a "Reward" poster? I have. They are 'conditioned' upon information, or finding somebody's dog or cat, or something like that, usually.

Big difference from getting the gift of something. Try it and see. Approach someone from a 'reward' poster and just claim it with no info, or not having the mutt in tow. Betcha' don't get that reward!

"But that's just me."

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Show me the scripture saying the righteous will be judged, not be in the judgement of rewards.

Well, bein' as you asked!

7 So shall the congregation of the people compass thee about: for their sakes therefore return thou on high. 8 The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.
9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.
10 My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.
11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day. (Ps. 7: 7-11 - KJV)

Waiting for a scripture saying the righteous will be judged, not be in the judgement of rewards.

17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work. (Eccles. 3:17 - KJV)

Now you have two. And to quote you, for a third time.

Do you accept scripture or not?

Shore do! How about yourself??

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Show me the scripture saying the righteous will be judged, not be in the judgement of rewards.

Well, bein' as you asked! Quote:
7 So shall the congregation of the people compass thee about: for their sakes therefore return thou on high. 8 The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.
9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.
10 My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.
11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day. (Ps. 7: 7-11 - KJV)


This my friend is in this life, while they are still living, as I previously told you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Waiting for a scripture saying the righteous will be judged, not be in the judgement of rewards.

Quote:
17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work. (Eccles. 3:17 - KJV)
15: That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.
16: And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there.
17: I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.
18: I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
19: For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20: All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Again, in this life Ed, in this life. Has absolutely nothing to do with the judgement.

Now you have two. And to quote you, for a third time. Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Do you accept scripture or not?

Shore do! How about yourself?? I sho do too, along with the context!!

Ed

context context context!!!

A judge first judges someone and then passes down the judgement. So does the Lord.



BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

What exactly are you talking about? I did not say any of what you are implying.

And as to a gift not being the same as a reward, yes. Did you ever give someone something as a gift? I have. Conditioned upon nothing. That is a gift.

Did you ever see a "Reward" poster? I have. They are 'conditioned' upon information, or finding somebody's dog or cat, or something like that, usually.

Big difference from getting the gift of something. Try it and see. Approach someone from a 'reward' poster and just claim it with no info, or not having the mutt in tow. Betcha' don't get that reward!

"But that's just me."

Ed

If you give a reward, for no reason, or any reason, the first part of that is "give". The reward itself, becomes the gift. I wonder if Law enforcement ever gave the reward to the wrong person??

And as to a gift not being the same as a reward, yes. Did you ever give someone something as a gift? I have. If you just give a reward, for no reason, or any reason, like you just care for the person, then the "reward itself" is a "gift".

If you ever just give someone a reward, for no reason, or any reason, but you just give it to them, then it is a "gift".

Just one question Ed, Does the Lord know before He leaves Heaven, coming after His children, whom He has saved, and whom, He has not???? Do you believe the Lord knows if He saved you or not now??? I have, but thats just me.

Is the Lamb's Book of Life empty, when He brings it with Him at His second coming??

What is the Judgement seat of Christ, Ed??

BBob,

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Ed Sutton: Did you ever give someone something as a gift? I have. Conditioned upon nothing. That is a gift.

HP: I have given a gift many times with conditions attached. They did not have to do anything to receive it, they did not have to work for it, and did nothing to merit it, and was indeed a gift. Just the same, the gift was given with attached conditions.

Regardless of whether your gift or mine have had or have not had conditions attached, Scripture clearly states that salvation has conditions. There are things one must do, and things we must continue to do until the end in order for our faith in and our hope of eternal life to be realized in the end. Repentance, faith, and obedience to the end arer the three conditions of salvation.

Bear in mind those conditions required of man are NOT thought of in the sense of ‘that for the sake of’ for there is nothing one can do or will do that will in any way merit salvation. Just the same, there are things we must do, thought of in the sense of ‘not without which,’ that must be done and continued in order for anyone to inherit eternal life.

The prison illustration I have posted a few times sets forth clearly the reality of these differing senses one can view the things God requires us to do.

 

[EdSutton]

HP: I have given a gift many times with conditions attached. They did not have to do anything to receive it, they did not have to work for it, and did nothing to merit it, and was indeed a gift. Just the same, the gift was given with attached conditions.

Regardless of whether your gift or mine have had or have not had conditions attached, Scripture clearly states that salvation has conditions. There are things one must do, and things we must continue to do until the end in order for our faith in and our hope of eternal life to be realized in the end. Repentance, faith, and obedience to the end arer the three conditions of salvation.

Bear in mind those conditions required of man are NOT thought of in the sense of ‘that for the sake of’ for there is nothing one can do or will do that will in any way merit salvation. Just the same, there are things we must do, thought of in the sense of ‘not without which,’ that must be done and continued in order for anyone to inherit eternal life.

The prison illustration I have posted a few times sets forth clearly the reality of these differing senses one can view the things God requires us to do.

Let's see if I got this right.

There is nothing I can do or will do that will in any way merit salvation, but yet I must continue to do it until the end to inherit eternal life.

And you have given many gifts that were 'free' that had all kind of conditions attached.

And God requires us to do things that don't have requirements beforehand.

Got it!

Have you ever thought about politics? I'd suggest you would do very well there!

Ed

 

[BobRyan]

Ahhh - the Bible texts on "perseverance" -- is this where we simply "ignore them"??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Brother Bob]

Ahhh - the Bible texts on "perseverance" -- is this where we simply "ignore them"??

in Christ,

Bob

Yea, I guess you can sin all you want and still go to Heaven.

BBob,

 

[EdSutton]

Ahhh - the Bible texts on "perseverance" -- is this where we simply "ignore them"??

in Christ,

Bob

Since my memory is not totally what it once was (and I believe you generally cite the KJV), let's see - there's the one that says -

Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; (Eph. 6:18 - KJV).

Uh, help me out, here, with all the rest of these "Bible texts on 'perseverance'". I can't seem to remember another instance of either the word "persevere" or the word "perseverance" in my copy of the KJV.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Show me the scripture saying the righteous will be judged, not be in the judgement of rewards.

Well, bein' as you asked! Quote:
7 So shall the congregation of the people compass thee about: for their sakes therefore return thou on high. 8 The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.
9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.
10 My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.
11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day. (Ps. 7: 7-11 - KJV)


This my friend is in this life, while they are still living, as I previously told you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Waiting for a scripture saying the righteous will be judged, not be in the judgement of rewards.

Quote:
17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work. (Eccles. 3:17 - KJV)
15: That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.
16: And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there.
17: I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.
18: I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
19: For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20: All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Again, in this life Ed, in this life. Has absolutely nothing to do with the judgement.

Now you have two. And to quote you, for a third time. Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Do you accept scripture or not?

Shore do! How about yourself?? I sho do too, along with the context!!

Ed

context context context!!!

A judge first judges someone and then passes down the judgement. So does the Lord.



BBob,

Actually you specifically asked (and I quote) "Show me the scripture saying the righteous will be judged, not be in the judgement (sic) of rewards." I gave you two verses saying the righteous will be judged, and neither mention "rewards" in the verses. In both instances, the language is in the future tense, at least in English, in the KJV. I do not know any Hebrew, but would assume that if the tense were incorrectly rendered, someone who does know Hebrew would by now have posted something to that effect.

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

Actually you specifically asked (and I quote) "Show me the scripture saying the righteous will be judged, not be in the judgement (sic) of rewards." I gave you two verses saying the righteous will be judged, and neither mention "rewards" in the verses. In both instances, the language is in the future tense, at least in English, in the KJV. I do not know any Hebrew, but would assume that if the tense were incorrectly rendered, someone who does know Hebrew would by now have posted something to that effect.

Ed

It shows that you never even read my post, for I specifically stated that we are judged every day of our life. That has been the whole discussion. You just came in on the tail end and responded to a verse or two, without the whole subject.

I asked to show me a scripture where the righteous will be judged in the end of time after the resurrection. If you can do that then it would add to this discussion, instead of derailing it.

BBob,

 

[D28guy]

DeafPostTrib,

Early in my Christian life, I used to believe Judgment Seat of Christ is for Christians only, because of what Baptist teaching."

Whether its a "Baptist" belief or not is irrelavent. It is a scriptural truth...THATS whats important.

"But, the Bible didn't saying it."

The scriptures do indeed teach that.

"Early Church believed both "judgment seat of Christ" and "great white throne" are synonymous."

What the "early church" believed is 100% irrelavent. What matters is what the scriptures proclaim.

"Bible have evidences that there are only one judgment day follow at the second coming."

There are 2 judgments coming. One for believers. A different one for the lost. The christians judgment is for the gain or loss of rewards. It is the Judgement Seat of Christ. See 1st Corinthians 3: 11-15, and 2 Corinthians 5:10...

"11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,

13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.

14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.

15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

" 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad."

The damned will be judged and condemned at the Great White Throne Judgment. See Rev 20: 11-15...

"11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."

Obviously, christians wont be judged there, because all christians "works" were already found to be sinful, and Christ took them upon Himself and suffered our death penalty for us. Christians sins were atoned for by Christ, and our names are now written in the Book of Life. It clearly says that those NOT found in the Book of Life...the lost...were cast in the lake of fire.



Hope this helps you to understand,

Mike

 

[SeekingHisTruth]

HP I'll not list all the texts on judgment, but take a look at them and in the NT they are ALWAYS looking at "works". Our "works" have NOTHING to do with whether or not we are saved.

If they do then Paul was lying in Acts 16:30-31 and Eph. 2:8-9. It's as simple as that.

Bro. Bob Hebrews tells us that is appointed unto man once to die and then judgment. There will be a judgment that will put our works on trial and those that are wood, hay and stubble will burn and those that are gold, silver and precious stones will survive the fire as per I Corinthians I believe.

I guess I don't have a "huge" problem with the notion that we are judged every day. I would have to think on that line some more, but to dismiss a judgment day is to dismiss a LOT of Scripture.

Bob Ryan you mentioned that there ere "good and evil" at the same judgment according to Daniel, but that in no way suggests that there is only "one" judgment taking place.

Christians are just as capable of committing evil acts as the unbelievers. Just ask Peter! For that matter just ask me!!!

 

[Brother Bob]

HP I'll not list all the texts on judgment, but take a look at them and in the NT they are ALWAYS looking at "works". Our "works" have NOTHING to do with whether or not we are saved.

If they do then Paul was lying in Acts 16:30-31 and Eph. 2:8-9. It's as simple as that.

Bro. Bob Hebrews tells us that is appointed unto man once to die and then judgment. There will be a judgment that will put our works on trial and those that are wood, hay and stubble will burn and those that are gold, silver and precious stones will survive the fire as per I Corinthians I believe.

I guess I don't have a "huge" problem with the notion that we are judged every day. I would have to think on that line some more, but to dismiss a judgment day is to dismiss a LOT of Scripture.

Bob Ryan you mentioned that there ere "good and evil" at the same judgment according to Daniel, but that in no way suggests that there is only "one" judgment taking place.

Christians are just as capable of committing evil acts as the unbelievers. Just ask Peter! For that matter just ask me!!!

If you will read all my posts you will see that I do not dismiss a judgement day. I am simply saying a "judgement day" is when we will receive our reward, whether good or bad. The Lord already know, who and what we are before the actual judgement day. I have never said that "judgement day" is not in the future, for it is when we receive our reward, if no judgement day, there would be no one going to Heaven. I am saying, "judgement day" does not mean being judged. He already knows what we are and on which side to place us, either on the right or on the left.

Christians are just as capable of committing evil acts as the unbelievers. Just ask Peter! For that matter just ask me!!!

I disagree with this.
BBob,

 

[SeekingHisTruth]

I am saying, "judgement day" does not mean being judged. He already knows what we are and on which side to place us, either on the right or on the left.

Bro. Bob you can't have a judgment day without judgment . If there was no judgment that was going to take place then it would be called something else .

I disagree with this.

It matters not whether you agree with it or not. It simply is the Truth of Scripture! Scripture doesn't care whether we agree with it or not . We can simply choose to believe it or not.

Would you not call what Peter did that led to Jesus calling him Satan evil? Would you not call Peter's denying Him several times evil? Would you not call any of your sin "evil"? I know I sure would call mine evil!

 

[Brother Bob]

Bro. Bob you can't have a judgment day without judgment . If there was no judgment that was going to take place then it would be called something else .
You can not have a judgement without first being judged. You are making the mistake of thinking judgement (which is receiving your reward) to being judged. I believe the judgement is to come, it is just that I believe Jesus will already have the record of you and me, when He comes again.

It matters not whether you agree with it or not. It simply is the Truth of Scripture! Scripture doesn't care whether we agree with it or not . We can simply choose to believe it or not.

Well, not to cordial, but yes I believe scripture.

Would you not call what Peter did that led to Jesus calling him Satan evil? Would you not call Peter's denying Him several times evil? Would you not call any of your sin "evil"? I know I sure would call mine evil!

Peter was still waiting on the receiving of the Holy Ghost inwardly. Was Peter saved when he denied the Lord??

Rev 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death

You believe Peter will be in the LoF??


BBob,

 

[SeekingHisTruth]

You can not have a judgement without first being judged. You are making the mistake of thinking judgement (which is receiving your reward) to being judged. I believe the judgement is to come, it is just that I believe Jesus will already have the record of you and me, when He comes again.

Bro. Bob I have no idea what you are trying to say. When someone goes to court the decision is not already known, but they go through the trial and then the judgment comes.

Our works will be put on trial on judgment day. Of that there can be no doubt as Scripture is clear on that point.

but yes I believe scripture.

If you do then you have to believe "saved" folks can commit acts of evil, because that's what Scripture shows us.

[quotePeter was still waiting on the receiving of the Holy Ghost inwardly.[/quote]
So?

Was Peter saved when he denied the Lord??

Absolutely!!! I can't believe you would suggest otherwise.

You believe Peter will be in the LoF??

No. Do you?