Do Christians Show Favoritism Towards Themselves?

[Matt22:37-39]

Some of you guys are really confusing me...where in the bible does it say CHRISTIANS will be punished in any way shape or form...my bible says just opposite.

 

[Don]

Some of you guys are really confusing me...where in the bible does it say CHRISTIANS will be punished in any way shape or form...my bible says just opposite.

Agreed. So why does Zaac keep putting Christians on equal footing with unrepentent sinners?

 

[Zaac]

Zaac -- this is why most of us disagree with you, and why I asked you a serious question about being a Christian.

Well I think you are probably aware that it is against the BB rules for you to question whether or not I'm a Christian.

Most of you disagree with me because most of you are just wrong. It's the same discussion we had back during the election cycle. So many on here truly believe they are correct but the things yall are so adamant about are in direct contradiction to what Scripture says.

And some are adamant about the conservative viewpoint when true Biblical conservatism holds to what the word says and not the conservative viewpoint.

We ALL have broken one, therefore have broken all. But where you mentioned one boat, there are actually two. Just as was described in a previous post, and was well-explained in a post about halfway down by Matt, there are those whose boat is heading for eternal damnation; and those who God has saved in the other. Both boats are filled with sinners; but the bigger boat is filled with unrepentent sinners.

I am aware of this. Christians have been put to death too. But we have not mentioned whether or not anyone was saved. It doesn't matter that there are more unrepentant sinners. You're STILL guilty of breaking the same law. If GOD is meting out the death judgment its one thing. But sinful men are passing the judgment.

We are all guilty of breaking the same law and God HAS NOT given His directive for equally sinful men to kill other equally sinful men.

Just as He tells us to remove the plank from our eye FIRST and then we'll see to tell our brother to remove the speck from his eye, He doesn't expect us to judge hypocritically and thus it doesn't matter which boat anyone is in in this instance.

So if a murderer is due death by man's judgment, then in accordance with Scripture, we should all be due the same death.

We're talking about death.

Why did I ask you about being a Christian? Because you said, "God forgive us." God has already forgiven the Christian--you, me, Matt, most everyone on this board. And I'm comfortable saying that because I don't know the hearts of anyone here.

Now you're being silly. we all know that Christ has already forgiven the Christian for his sins. That has nothing to do with being sanctified into God's likeness and confessing and repenting of sin day to day. It's part of the relationship.

And this is EXACTLY what I mean. Christians act as though the sin that they commit daily is better because it's been forgiven. It's STILL sin.

We don't tell our saved kids "go ahead and lie because you've been forgiven". So why all of a sudden when Scripture makes it clear that anyone who breaks one law is guilty of breaking it all are we now trying to flip the script?

Sin is still called sin, saved or not. And if you break one, even while saved, you're guilty of breaking them all.

And thus if you're gonna be okay with someone being put to death by man's judgment for breaking the same law that we are all guilty of breaking, then it is yet again the utmost of hypocrisy.

The degree of punishment for ALL of us is the same: NONE if we're Christians, and eternal damnation if we're not.

Jesus is not putting anyone to death here. This is men making the judgment to put folks to death and Christians agreeing with it when the Bible shows that we are all guilty of the same thing.

So if you agree that man should have the right to kill another because of his sin, then you should also believe that you are due the same thing BIBLICALLY.

And if we are loving our neighbors as ourselves, I don't know too many of us who think we should be killed for telling a lie. But in accordance with what Scripture says, you break one, you've broken them all.

So folks need to come down this high horse of wanting to condemn folks to death when Scripture makes clear they have not committed any sin that we all are guilty of committing.

 

[Zaac]

Agreed. So why does Zaac keep putting Christians on equal footing with unrepentent sinners?

I haven't put anyone on equal footing. I put your SIN on equal footing because Scripture does.

And THAT is what you keep missing. You're guilty of breaking the same law as is the unforgiven sinner.

So unless you're putting yourself up for death, stop trying to make it okay to put "the really bad people" up for death by the directive of MEN and not God.

 

[Yeshua1]

I haven't put anyone on equal footing. I put your SIN on equal footing because Scripture does.

And THAT is what you keep missing. You're guilty of breaking the same law as is the unforgiven sinner.

So unless you're putting yourself up for death, stop trying to make it okay to put "the really bad people" up for death by the directive of MEN and not God.

You fail to see that God MUST judge and punish crime/sin/transgression, for he IS HOLY and must mete out judgemet!

IF a chrsitian for some strange reason, decided to go commit murder on his wife and kids, the lord would NOT judge him as to eternal consequences, for the blood of chrsit has already fully paid for that verdict'not gulity", but God MUST judge him guilty of capital crime, and have the state execute Him!

 

[Zaac]

You fail to see that God MUST judge and punish crime/sin/transgression, for he IS HOLY and must mete out judgemet!

How have I failed to see THAT? THAT is what I have been saying. GOD can make a judgment for death. We cannot and He is NOT giving His directive the way that HE did with Moses, Joshua, and others for us to do so.

IF a chrsitian for some strange reason, decided to go commit murder on his wife and kids, the lord would NOT judge him as to eternal consequences, for the blood of chrsit has already fully paid for that verdict'not gulity", but God MUST judge him guilty of capital crime, and have the state execute Him!

That's a bunch of crazy and inconsistent with His word. :laugh:Those in the state are guilty of breaking the same law. The taking of life is to be meted out by GOD, not man.

Where do we see God giving His blessing in the NT for us to take the life of someone who is breaking the same law that we break? He did again, through the Moses's and Joshuas of their day. But there is no picture of Him speaking to man and giving Him such a directive post ascension of Jesus. Rather we see a picture of forgiving and mercy perhaps because we are all guilty of breaking the same law.

If our punishment for breaking that law is not death, why are we okay with it being death for someone else?

I understand that in man's system different crimes have different consequences. But it BIBLICALLY makes no sense, for those who have been saved from death for the breaking of GOD's Law, to be okay with putting to death someone else who breaks the same law.

Love your neighbor as YOURSELF.

It is so incredibly selfish of us to be okay with a death sentence for breaking the law when we, above all others, should understand that we have broken the same law and have been shown mercy.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

You fail to see that God MUST judge and punish crime/sin/transgression, for he IS HOLY and must mete out judgemet!

IF a chrsitian for some strange reason, decided to go commit murder on his wife and kids, the lord would NOT judge him as to eternal consequences, for the blood of chrsit has already fully paid for that verdict'not gulity", but God MUST judge him guilty of capital crime, and have the state execute Him!

I agree............

 

[Yeshua1]

How have I failed to see THAT? THAT is what I have been saying. GOD can make a judgment for death. We cannot and He is NOT giving His directive the way that HE did with Moses, Joshua, and others for us to do so.



That's a bunch of crazy and inconsistent with His word. :laugh:Those in the state are guilty of breaking the same law. The taking of life is to be meted out by GOD, not man.

Where do we see God giving His blessing in the NT for us to take the life of someone who is breaking the same law that we break? He did again, through the Moses's and Joshuas of their day. But there is no picture of Him speaking to man and giving Him such a directive post ascension of Jesus. Rather we see a picture of forgiving and mercy perhaps because we are all guilty of breaking the same law.

If our punishment for breaking that law is not death, why are we okay with it being death for someone else?

I understand that in man's system different crimes have different consequences. But it BIBLICALLY makes no sense, for those who have been saved from death for the breaking of GOD's Law, to be okay with putting to death someone else who breaks the same law.

Love your neighbor as YOURSELF.

It is so incredibly selfish of us to be okay with a death sentence for breaking the law when we, above all others, should understand that we have broken the same law and have been shown mercy.

There is etrnal punishement handed out by God for being found guilty of being sinners, but that is at GWT judgement, but God also does execute judgemnt for sins here, in the sense of crime being punished, why would a society not judge crimes/murder/rape, so we just let it all go, and let God handle it when all of them die and face him?

 

[Zaac]

There is etrnal punishement handed out by God for being found guilty of being sinners, but that is at GWT judgement, but God also does execute judgemnt for sins here, in the sense of crime being punished, why would a society not judge crimes/murder/rape, so we just let it all go, and let God handle it when all of them die and face him?

I didn't say society did not judge crime. We obviously do. I am saying that if Christians are BIBLICALLY applying Scripture to their worldview, they should be anti-death penalty. There shouldn't be any advocating of punishment unto death by a Christian who has been saved from the penalty of breaking the same law.

If someone is guilty of breaking the same law that you break and you're not getting the death penalty, why would you be okay with them getting the death penalty?

Love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

Wait a minute Zaac...God instituted the death penalty. Genesis 9:6 Also read Romans 13

"Do unto others as yourself" has NOTHING to do with people paying for the consequences of their sin. One of the huge reasons our country is so rampant with sin is because our punishments are not hard enough or swift enough.

God allowed and even caused in the Old Testament the death of many as a way of PURIFICATION...one as a way to show others you better think twice before committing the same sin and to cleanse His people and to keep them "Holy".

Saved or not...if someone murders someone and isn't remorseful and there is no chance of rehabilitation...then they should be put to death and quickly as to not waste tax payers dollars.

I'm sorry but I am not with you on this one!

 

[Yeshua1]

I didn't say society did not judge crime. We obviously do. I am saying that if Christians are BIBLICALLY applying Scripture to their worldview, they should be anti-death penalty. There shouldn't be any advocating of punishment unto death by a Christian who has been saved from the penalty of breaking the same law.

If someone is guilty of breaking the same law that you break and you're not getting the death penalty, why would you be okay with them getting the death penalty?

Love your neighbor as yourself.

If a Christian did a crime worthy of being put to death, they should be!

 

[Matt22:37-39]

Right!...............:thumbsup:

 

[Zaac]

Wait a minute Zaac...God instituted the death penalty. Genesis 9:6 Also read Romans 13

Yes I know. And the directive to, no pun intended, execute that judgment always came from Him to someone else when it was righteously done. I don't see any instances in the NT where He gave that directive to the Gentiles.

In other words, God always gave the order to kill. Now it's man usurping God's authority of life and death and choosing to take a life because we believe that is the just punishment. But if we're all guilty of breaking the same law, how are we okay with life for ourselves but death for someone else who broke the same law?

"Do unto others as yourself" has NOTHING to do with people paying for the consequences of their sin. One of the huge reasons our country is so rampant with sin is because our punishments are not hard enough or swift enough.

God allowed and even caused in the Old Testament the death of many as a way of PURIFICATION...one as a way to show others you better think twice before committing the same sin and to cleanse His people and to keep them "Holy".

I know. But GOD always gave the command. There's no history of Him doing that in the NT with the Gentiles because it looks as though He wants mercy to triumph over judgment. And what better way to get people to see that than to make known that if you break one law, you have broken them all. And thus we are all equally guilty.

So in treating your neighbor as yourself, would you recommend death for your trespasses as they are the same according to Scripture?

Saved or not...if someone murders someone and isn't remorseful and there is no chance of rehabilitation...then they should be put to death and quickly as to not waste tax payers dollars.

This is not an issue of taxpayer dollars. This is an issue of right and wrong. The money is a non-issue.

Scripture says 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.”[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. James 2:11

If we break one, we've broken them all. SO do we advocate the death penalty for ourselves? Or do we unrighteously only advocate it for those whom we feel have committed the "worst" sins?

 

[Zaac]

If a Christian did a crime worthy of being put to death, they should be!

And what crime might that be? According to Scripture, if you break one law, you've broken them all. So what crime would you be able to commit, that BIBLICALLY, wouldn't demand the death penalty too?

 

[Matt22:37-39]

Not sure how you are coming to your conclusion as it seems you are mixing words to fit where they do not fit.

Think about it...if our laws were harder and the punishment fit the crime and swiftly carried out think about the benefits that would result and how much better our country would be.

This is ONLY for those who cannot be REHABILITATED and who are NOT REMORSEFUL....I honestly believe some people are juts plain evil who are ANTISOCIAL who have no redeeming value, and will never be saved.....take Hitler for example. One cannot get saved till they admit they are sinners...anti social people are NOT able to do this.

So for those who are not


SEX OFFENDERS, who prey on children and women, should be castrated!....period end of story.

MURDERS....put to death, quickly as to not drain the state with constant appeals.

I think if we dealt with juts these two alone...that would cause a trickle down effect of others thinking twice before they break laws.

We are a very WIMPY country what can I say?

Then we wonder why we produce WIMPY MEN!

 

[Zaac]

Not sure how you are coming to your conclusion as it seems you are mixing words to fit where they do not fit.

Think about it...if our laws were harder and the punishment fit the crime and swiftly carried out think about the benefits that would result and how much better our country would be.

This is ONLY for those who cannot be REHABILITATED and who are NOT REMORSEFUL....I honestly believe some people are juts plain evil who are ANTISOCIAL who have no redeeming value, and will never be saved.....take Hitler for example. One cannot get saved till they admit they are sinners...anti social people are NOT able to do this.

So for those who are not


SEX OFFENDERS, who prey on children and women, should be castrated!....period end of story.

MURDERS....put to death, quickly as to not drain the state with constant appeals.

I think if we dealt with juts these two alone...that would cause a trickle down effect of others thinking twice before they break laws.

We are a very WIMPY country what can I say?

Then we wonder why we produce WIMPY MEN!

This is not an issue of the benefits to our country. This is about obedience to God's word.

Why do so many Christians seemingly pick on the homosexuals and the addicts? Because we think their sin is the worst of the worst. But Scripture says if you have broken one, you have broken them all.

That means if I tell a lie, I'm also guilty of breaking the whole of the law which is punishable by death. So how have we decided that only certain sins are worthy of death when Scripture shows them all to be worthy of death?

If we are all guilty of breaking the totality of the law with even one sin, then it serves to reason that we would be more loving in dealing with those whom we believe have the worst sins.

Scripturally, we're all in the same boat.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

Question: "Are all sins equal to God?"

Answer: In Matthew 5:21-28, Jesus equates committing adultery with having lust in your heart and committing murder with having hatred in your heart. However, this does not mean the sins are equal. What Jesus was trying to get across to the Pharisees is that sin is still sin even if you only want to do the act, without actually carrying it out. The religious leaders of Jesus’ day taught that it was okay to think about anything you wanted to, as long as you did not act on those desires. Jesus is forcing them to realize that God judges a person’s thoughts as well as his actions. Jesus proclaimed that our actions are the result of what is in our hearts (Matthew 12:34).

So, although Jesus said that lust and adultery are both sins, that does not mean they are equal. It is much worse to actually murder a person than it is to simply hate a person, even though they are both sins in God’s sight. There are degrees to sin. Some sins are worse than others. At the same time, in regard to both eternal consequences and salvation, all sins are the same. Every sin will lead to eternal condemnation (Romans 6:23). All sin, no matter how “small,” is against an infinite and eternal God, and is therefore worthy of an infinite and eternal penalty. Further, there is no sin too “big” that God cannot forgive it. Jesus died to pay the penalty for sin (1 John 2:2). Jesus died for all of our sins (2 Corinthians 5:21). Are all sins equal to God? Yes and no. In severity? No. In penalty? Yes. In forgivability? Yes.

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Yeshua1]

And what crime might that be? According to Scripture, if you break one law, you've broken them all. So what crime would you be able to commit, that BIBLICALLY, wouldn't demand the death penalty too?

again, all sin is offense to god, but he deals with eternal consequences for sinning, that would be judgemet nd hell, or heaven if saved in Chrsit jesus, but while on EARTH, in this life, still has to judge crime and wicked ways, and in this life, God DOES treat sin differently in regards to suitable punishement...

By your reasoning, a car ticket for driving 5 over merits execution as much as Hitler did!

 

[Zaac]

Question: "Are all sins equal to God?"

Answer: In Matthew 5:21-28, Jesus equates committing adultery with having lust in your heart and committing murder with having hatred in your heart. However, this does not mean the sins are equal. What Jesus was trying to get across to the Pharisees is that sin is still sin even if you only want to do the act, without actually carrying it out. The religious leaders of Jesus’ day taught that it was okay to think about anything you wanted to, as long as you did not act on those desires. Jesus is forcing them to realize that God judges a person’s thoughts as well as his actions. Jesus proclaimed that our actions are the result of what is in our hearts (Matthew 12:34).

So, although Jesus said that lust and adultery are both sins, that does not mean they are equal. It is much worse to actually murder a person than it is to simply hate a person, even though they are both sins in God’s sight. There are degrees to sin. Some sins are worse than others. At the same time, in regard to both eternal consequences and salvation, all sins are the same. Every sin will lead to eternal condemnation (Romans 6:23). All sin, no matter how “small,” is against an infinite and eternal God, and is therefore worthy of an infinite and eternal penalty. Further, there is no sin too “big” that God cannot forgive it. Jesus died to pay the penalty for sin (1 John 2:2). Jesus died for all of our sins (2 Corinthians 5:21). Are all sins equal to God? Yes and no. In severity? No. In penalty? Yes. In forgivability? Yes.

www.gotquestions.org

I'm not saying that all sins are equal. I'm referencing the totality of the law and what Scripture says. If you break one, you've broken it all and thus are as worthy of death as is the murderer, adulterer, homosexual offender, etc.

It is in that regard that every saved person should default to mercy as mercy has been given.

Why do some Christians treat addicts so poorly? Because they think the addicts sin is worse.
Why do some Christians treat the abortionists so poorly? Because they think the abortionist's sin is worse.
Why do some Christians treat the homosexual offender so poorly? Because they think the homosexual offender's sin is worse.
Why do some Christians treat the murderer so poorly? Because they think the murder's sin is worse.

We are ALL guilty of breaking the same law as Scripture points out. So how can we demand death for anyone who is no more guilty of breaking God's law than we all are?

 

[Zaac]

again, all sin is offense to god, but he deals with eternal consequences for sinning, that would be judgemet nd hell, or heaven if saved in Chrsit jesus, but while on EARTH, in this life, still has to judge crime and wicked ways, and in this life, God DOES treat sin differently in regards to suitable punishement...

No HE doesn't. God is HOLY. Every sin is punishable by the same death.

Man treats them differently but God does not. An unforgiven lie will send you to hell just as an unforgiven murder will because they are all a transgression of the whole law

By your reasoning, a car ticket for driving 5 over merits execution as much as Hitler did!

It's not my reasoning. It's God's word. And yes , an unforgiven driving 5 over merits the same punishment from GOD that would be due an unforgiven Hitler.

There is no discrimination in God. Sin is sin .