Do messianic jews have to keep the law?

[BobRyan]

As for tithing. The justification is basically that Abraham gave Melchisedek 10% of his stuff.

And then there is always the Malachi 3 statement where God accuses His people of "robbing God" by withholding the tithe.

There are a number of places to find the law of tithing from scripture if you use all 66 books.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[trustitl]

The "context" of the discussion is that the Jewish leaders tithed ALL right down to the spices in their gardens. Christ was pointing out that this was indeed a very detailed and thorough tithing system but they were missing the weightier matters of justice and mercy while being totally focused on tithing right down to the spices in the yard.

Christ then provides the summation that they should not ignore the weightier issues even while continuing their diligence in the lesser issue of tithing.

Christ never said "stop tithing income as scripture demands -- just look for spices in your yard" as some would have us believe.

in Christ,

Bob

Sorry Bob. Strike 3, again.

Anybody else reading this: please read about Linda's experince and her admonition to read Galations and let the Holy Spirit guide you.

 

[BobRyan]

I think that we all are to keep the law by faith that Jesus writes it on our heart.
It is the sacrificial Lamb that is removed. Jesus is that Lamb

Good point!

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Sorry Bob. Strike 3, again.

Anybody else reading this: please read about Linda's experince and her admonition to read Galations and let the Holy Spirit guide you.

Anybody reading the words of Christ in the Gospels "as if" they can then "cancel Christ with Paul" in Galatians -- is misreading Paul.

 

[trustitl]

Galations 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. 13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. 14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

 

[BobRyan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by xdisciplex
Act 21:19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
Act 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
Act 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
Act 21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
Act 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
Act 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

Bob said -
You ask a very good question. Obviously in the context of Acts 21 Paul is not arguing that Jews should Ignore scripture as some have hoped.

Unfortunately you have asked a question in context with a specific chapter of scripture - I am forced to respond IN context!

xdisciplex--

I've been there (in the Messianic Jewish movement)...read and study the book of Galatians carefully to understand this movement. David Stern is not God. If you are a born again Christian, the Holy Spirit will guide you ml

As compelling as that kind of logic is --- as a response to the specific question regarding Paul in Acts 21 -- I will stick with scripture.

Having said that - I am not arguing in favor of the Messianic Jewish focus on the ceremonies. My point is that those who argue in favor of "sola scriptura" methods should not be "going everywhere BUT Acts 21" when a question comes up regarding that text.

There needs to be something more than "lip service" paid to the "sola scriptura" claim in "test cases" where a text is brought up that "does not immediately please" -- some solution other than "avoiding the text to answer the question".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Linda64]

Thank you Linda for sharing your experience and this information. My sister was drawn into this about 8 years ago. She went into a tailspin and eventually left her husband. I have not seen her in almost 4 years. :tear:

You seem to have learned from this what God wanted you to. Please keep warning people about this and the effects of "falling from grace".

In my own experience with the Messianic Jewish movement, I have seen situations similar to your sister's...and the more "gentiles" who get pulled into this movement (which, I believe to be just another branch of Judaism), it is becoming more the rule than the exception. I worked for a "gentile" Christian who actually "converted" to Rabbinic Judaism...went through the ceremonies and the whole nine yards...to become Jewish. As far as I know, this man is still gentile, unless some Jewish person gave him a blood transfusion! At the present time, he is the "Rabbi" (that's what the Messianic congregations call "pastor") of a Torah Observant congregation in Fort Collins, Colorado...still gentile too!!

I pray that the Lord will convict your sister.

 

[TCGreek]

When Jesus asked John to baptize him he said "so that we may fulfill ALL righteousness" -- fulfill does not mean "abolish" it means "fulfill that which is required of Him".

Paul points out in Rom 3 that fulfill does not mean abolish as well.

"Do we then make void the law of God by our faith - God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31.

A better word then is ESTABLISH - to fulfill is to ESTABLISH when it comes to laws of all kinds - because it means that you are complying with what the law requires.

Those who do not approve of this Bible solution - should take up their disagreements with the author of scripture -- I am simply "reporting the news" not writing it.

in Christ,

Bob

1. In Matt 5:17 the word for "to fulfill is πληρῶσαι.

2. In Rom 3:31 "we established" is ἱστάνομεν.

3. We surely not talking about the same word here, and the meaning certainly is not the same.