Do most Baptist believe...

[awaken]

You have just enunciated in succinct form the Christus Victor view of the atonement which is what I believe. I have taken as much heat on here for that as you have about the spiritual gifts. :tonofbricks:

Well common ground is always refreshing after such a battle defending the other!

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Well common ground is always refreshing after such a battle defending the other!

Indeed! I concur.

 

[12strings]

Awaken, I have copied your atonement responses to the "Atonement theores" thread and responded to them, for easier following of this argument.

 

[MorseOp]

Isaiah 53:4-12

4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

Isaiah is writing in covenant language. Unless we buy into the suffering servant being Israel, it is the consensus of most conservative theologians that this is a Messianic passage, speaking of Christ.

"For the transgression of my people he was punished." "My people" are those who have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb from eternity. Jesus Christ endured God's full unbridled wrath on sin in His person. It is beyond finite human comprehension to understand how one person, divine or not, can experience the wrath of God for sin, but Jesus did.

Wrath, punishment; Jesus experienced both on behalf of God's elect. Those who die in their sins will experience God's wrath and punishment, but they will never be able to satisfy their debt.

 

[Yeshua1]

Can you explain "penal substitution?" I am not familiar with that term.

theory that Jesus died on behalf of/in place of sinners, and that His death was acceptable to God the father as full payment for all sins of those to be saved by that act!

 

[Van]

Rewrite

Here are 10 truths all Baptists proclaim.

1. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness, 2 Timothy 3:16

2. For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

3. Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

4. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

5. God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him male and female.

6. Jesus Christ is the one of a kind Son of God, who humbled Himself and was born on earth as a human. He who knew no sin became a sin offering for us, He laid down His life as a ransom for all. In Him all the fulness of the Godhead dwells.

7. Our human nature is corrupt and "fallen." We are totally unable to earn our salvation through any good deeds or religious ceremonies (such as baptism) or other works. Our salvation is a free gift from God because of His grace, His undeserved favor toward us, and it's only through trusting in Jesus as our risen Savior that we're able to receive salvation and eternal life. [nothing to rewrite, Awaken got it right!]

8. When God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness, God spiritually places us "in Christ" (the sanctifying work of the Spirit) where we undergo the circumcision of Christ and arise in Christ a new creation.

9. The return of Christ is imminent, so we should live each day as if Christ will return that day. After the Second Coming, Christ will set up His kingdom and will reign in righteousness on earth for one thousand years, and we Christians will reign with Him during that time.

10. At communion we should examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith, do we exhibit the fruit of the Spirit, in order to be confident in our salvation.

 

[awaken]

Here are 10 truths all Baptists proclaim.

1. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness, 2 Timothy 3:16

2. For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

3. Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

4. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

5. God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him male and female.

6. Jesus Christ is the one of a kind Son of God, who humbled Himself and was born on earth as a human. He who knew no sin became a sin offering for us, He laid down His life as a ransom for all. In Him all the fulness of the Godhead dwells.

7. Our human nature is corrupt and "fallen." We are totally unable to earn our salvation through any good deeds or religious ceremonies (such as baptism) or other works. Our salvation is a free gift from God because of His grace, His undeserved favor toward us, and it's only through trusting in Jesus as our risen Savior that we're able to receive salvation and eternal life. [nothing to rewrite, Awaken got it right!]

8. When God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness, God spiritually places us "in Christ" (the sanctifying work of the Spirit) where we undergo the circumcision of Christ and arise in Christ a new creation.

9. The return of Christ is imminent, so we should live each day as if Christ will return that day. After the Second Coming, Christ will set up His kingdom and will reign in righteousness on earth for one thousand years, and we Christians will reign with Him during that time.

10. At communion we should examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith, do we exhibit the fruit of the Spirit, in order to be confident in our salvation.

I have no problems with these truths! :thumbs:

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I have no problems with these truths! :thumbs:

Nor do I...........