Do non-cals believe in omniscience?

[quantumfaith]

The problem from your side is that you ultimately try to argue that there is a moral standard that transcends God to which the creature can hold God Himself accountable. From where did the definition and "origin" of this moral standard come if God is subject to it? ANY argument that says that God can be "wrong" if He does something just because a sinful, faulty, finite creature feels so is fundamentally flawed.

I totally did not understand this, could you elaborate for the less theologically inclined. Thanks.

 

[glfredrick]

I totally did not understand this, could you elaborate for the less theologically inclined. Thanks.

He is saying that those who suggest that God has to play by some "rules" need to figure out what is higher than God so as to make Him do so. Then, worship that...

Seeing as how "that" is most often our own sinful human desires, then we ought to worship ourselves, and indeed many do, even while attributing said worship to God.

 

[Skandelon]

Just a quick note for clarity. Through I totally agree that God sets the rules, not the other way around, we must acknowledge the rules that have now been set through revelation as being the truth about God. (i.e. He cannot lie)

And we must understand that according to revelation God has obligated himself to some things (i.e. to save whosoever believes for example) and because He cannot lie He will necessarily do what He has promised He will do. That doesn't even imply that God's rules are somehow higher than Him, only that those rules have revealed his nature and plan and He will not contradict what HE has said He will do.

If Ares or anyone read my words to suggest I believe otherwise simply misread them. This is why I suggest that people use the quote feature and go line by line or paragraph by paragraph and answer the actual words so that it is clear what point is being debated and why. Thanks

 

[convicted1]

The problem from your side is that you ultimately try to argue that there is a moral standard that transcends God to which the creature can hold God Himself accountable. From where did the definition and "origin" of this moral standard come if God is subject to it? ANY argument that says that God can be "wrong" if He does something just because a sinful, faulty, finite creature feels so is fundamentally flawed.

Who holds to this on either side of the debate, and especially in our camp? That's a BIG accusation there Brother.

God can not lie, yet the scriptures state a lying spirit from the Lord came. So does God have a lying Spirit Himself, or did He just simply send an evil spirit to that person? God has control of even the fallen angels(which I believe are the lying spirits He sent). It's when someone goes so far as to state that God authoritatively decreed sin to come(that Satan had no other choice than to rebel and get cast out, and Adam and Eve had no other choice, because He authoritatively decreed it), that I have a problem with that statement, because it goes against His very nature.

 

[glfredrick]

Who holds to this on either side of the debate, and especially in our camp? That's a BIG accusation there Brother.

God can not lie, yet the scriptures state a lying spirit from the Lord came. So does God have a lying Spirit Himself, or did He just simply send an evil spirit to that person? God has control of even the fallen angels(which I believe are the lying spirits He sent). It's when someone goes so far as to state that God authoritatively decreed sin to come(that Satan had no other choice than to rebel and get cast out, and Adam and Eve had no other choice, because He authoritatively decreed it), that I have a problem with that statement, because it goes against His very nature.

In all sincerity, I believe that you will find yourself arguing against God based on logical or moral rules that YOU have decided must be true. What we know of God is what is revealed in the Scriptures. To decide something other -- even in the case when what IS revealed goes against our own sensibilities -- is to usurp the authority of God and to work to fulfill the sinful promise of the enemy of God as offered to Eve in Genesis chapter 3. "Did God really say?"

 

[quantumfaith]

In all sincerity, I believe that you will find yourself arguing against God based on logical or moral rules that YOU have decided must be true. What we know of God is what is revealed in the Scriptures. To decide something other -- even in the case when what IS revealed goes against our own sensibilities -- is to usurp the authority of God and to work to fulfill the sinful promise of the enemy of God as offered to Eve in Genesis chapter 3. "Did God really say?"

GL, I "think" there is a strong distinction between saying "this is how I understand the attributes of God" (the incapability of lying being one) and the expressed intent of the heart of "Did God really say?" If I misunderstand your point, then I apologize.

 

[glfredrick]

GL, I "think" there is a strong distinction between saying "this is how I understand the attributes of God" (the incapability of lying being one) and the expressed intent of the heart of "Did God really say?" If I misunderstand your point, then I apologize.

I agree that there is indeed a distinction, but in this case the information has already been laid out and available for examination. To make the case as it has been made is to go against what is already known and shown in Scripture, and so it begins to equate with a challenge against God and God's word based on SOME OTHER SOURCE THAN THAT WORD.

 

[DaChaser1]

I agree that there is indeed a distinction, but in this case the information has already been laid out and available for examination. To make the case as it has been made is to go against what is already known and shown in Scripture, and so it begins to equate with a challenge against God and God's word based on SOME OTHER SOURCE THAN THAT WORD.

not a scholar, but do need that I am so thankful that salvation is/of/by the Lord alone, as IF I had to choose, have my own faith, come to god, would have NEVER been saved!

 

[Jon-Marc]

God's omniscience is a fact that is accepted by faith by anyone who is born again. Anyone who denies that fact, I would not believe that person to be born again.