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"Do not interpretations belong to God?" #1, Amillennialism: A Word Direct From The Scriptures.

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
When He comes again, He will be at Jerusalem ( and us with Him ), just as it tells us here:
I can't find that to be the case, in these verses which describe Jesus' Second Coming, which is The End of Time and The World, when He Will Create a New Heaven and a New Earth.
( Zechariah 14:3-5 ).

The Day of the LORD (14:3-5);

"According to the NT, it is Christ Himself Who Will bring the Last Battle to a close at His Parousia, when He arrives in Power and Glory in the skies above the Earth to destroy His enemies and to Glorify both His people and their world (Matthew 13:36-43; 1 Corinthians 15:20-28; 2 Thessalonians 1, 2; 2 Peter 3; Revelation 11:11-19, 14:14-20, 16:17-21, 19:11-21, 20:7-15). According to the NCH (New Covenant Hermeneutic), the snapshot before us is a symbolic picture of that very thing. Let us see if our text—and its context—justifies this important conclusion.

"Verse 3 tells us that at the time of “Jerusalem’s” Eschatological agony, the LORD Himself Will Go Forth and Fight against her foes, even as He did on many previous occasions in Israel’s history (Exodus 14:1ff, 15:1-18; Isaiah 36-37; Revelation 15:2-3).

"This will be the last of them, the Great and Notable Day of the LORD. However, from the NT we know that the Day of the LORD will in fact be the Day of the Lord Jesus Christ at His Parousia (2 Corinthians 1:14; Philippians 2:16; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Peter 3:4, 10). Therefore, this particular snapshot is indeed Fulfilled at Christ’s Parousia, and must be interpreted accordingly.

"Verse 4 pictures the LORD creating an unexpected way of escape for His people; verse 5 pictures them using it. This is God’s Way with all His people, both OT and New (1 Corinthians 10:13). Quite intentionally, the imagery used here reminds us of how God Miraculously Delivered Israel at the Red Sea (Exodus 14:1ff). Importantly, verse 4 is not telling us that Christ Will literally Stand upon the Mount of Olives; or that He Will literally Split it apart so as to create a literal valley. Similarly, verse 5 is not predicting that literal Jews of a physical Jerusalem will flee to the tiny village of Azel. Those who take this approach are falling into confusion by abandoning the NCH, which teaches us to interpret this Prophecy figuratively, in terms of NT truth.

"What then is the real message of verses 4-5? We begin to see our answer when we remember that a number of OT texts picture the God of Judgment treading upon the high places of the Earth so as to Split valleys and Melt mountains beneath His Omnipotent Feet (Psalm 97:5; Isaiah 64:1-2; Micah 1:3-4; Nahum 1:5). Similarly, we remember that in OT times the LORD was Faithful not only to Rescue His people from coming destruction but also to provide them with cities—or other places—of refuge, to which they could flee (Genesis 19:20-26; Numbers 35:9f; Joshua 6:1ff; 1 Samuel 24:22).

"Bearing all this in mind, we can readily discern the theological concepts underlying the concrete imagery of these verses: In the Day of the LORD, when the world itself is about to undergo Final Destruction, the Presence and Power of the Covenant-Keeping God of Israel Will Descend to the Earth and draw near to His Beloved and persecuted City. Then He Will Supernaturally Open a Way for His people to flee eastward towards Him (for the LORD likes to Come to His children from the East: Isaiah 63:1; Ezekiel 43:4; Revelation 7:2), and so find safety in a City of Refuge. When the last of His Redeemed children has entered that City, then the LORD and all His Holy Ones Will come, and Final Judgment Will Fall upon all Israel’s enemies.

"It requires but a small Hermeneutical step to see how the NT actually fleshes out these broad Theological Promises: In the Day of the Lord Jesus, the Glorified Christ Himself Will Descend from Heaven to the skies just above the Earth, thereafter Circling the Globe from east to west, even as the Earth and its works begin to melt with intense heat (2 Peter 3; Revelation 7:2). By His Spirit and through the agency of His Holy Angels He Will swiftly draw near to His people (His Beloved City) wherever they may be, and Will Supernaturally Open a Way through the air for His saints to fly to Him, their One True City of Refuge (Matthew 13:36-43; 1 Thessalonians 4:13ff). When in this way He has Gathered all his children Safely to His Side, He, they, and all the Holy Angels Will “Come” in such a way as to consign the enemies of God—both human and angelic—to the Fire’s of God’s Eternal Judgment (Matthew 13:42, 25:31ff; Romans 16:20; 1 Corinthians 6:2; Revelation 19:20, 20:10)."

From: Jerusalem In That Day: Interpreting Zechariah 12-14 – Come Let Us Reason


Alan, it's not difficult to read His word and find where it is blatantly stated that He will rule from Jerusalem, my friend.
Neither is it hard to see that we will be with Him.
That's it, at Jesus' Return, is what I see from all Old Testament and New Testament passages I have seen. The End of The World. No more opportunity for anyone to be saved. Jesus separates the sheep from the goats when He Returns and that's it. Time will be no more.
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
( Isaiah 2:1-4 )

Calvin's Interpretation of Isaiah 2:1-4.​

by Prof. Robert Decker.​


Calvin understood this prophecy to be a "confirmation" of the "doctrine … concerning the restoration of the Church." Calvin viewed this prophecy of the restoration of the church as a special vision added by God, [1]" … by way of confirmation, in order to make it more certain and undoubted that, whatever calamities might arise, His Church never perish" (p. 90). That which God confirms by this vision is the promise revealed in Isaiah 1: 26 and 27, "And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The City of Righteousness, the Faithful City. Zion shall be Redeemed with Judgment, and her converts with Righteousness."

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I Will build my church; and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it."
Matthew 16:18.

Chapter one of Isaiah speaks of the terrible sin and rebellion of the Kingdom of Israel, the typical manifestation of Christ's Kingdom, Christ's church in the Old Testament era. On account of this rebellion the Holy and Righteous God will pour out His Judgments on Israel. They will be taken into captivity by Babylon. For the sake of the faithful remnant according to God's Eternal Election of Grace in Christ, the Lord Promises to Redeem and Restore His church. Her judges and counselors will be Restored, and she shall be Redeemed through Judgment and called the City of Righteousness, the Faithful City. This Promise, or, as Calvin calls it, this Doctrine, is confirmed by the Vision of chapter 2:1-4. God confirms the Doctrine of Redemption and Restoration by this Vision of the Glorious, Victorious Kingdom of Christ. He does so to reassure and comfort His beleaguered, suffering, captive saints in Babylon.

Revelation 21:2;
"And I John saw the Holy City, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

"Doctrine sometimes has not sufficient weight with us, God therefore adds visions, that by means of them He May seal His Doctrine to us" (p. 90). Calvin sees God as having a twofold purpose with this Doctrine or Promise of the future restoration of the churches (chap. 1:26, 27) as sealed by what he calls the Vision of chapter 2:1-4. And here Calvin's pastoral heart is beautifully manifest.

Acts 20:28;
"Take heed therefore to yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost has made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which He has Purchased with His Own Blood."

"First, since Isaiah, and others who came after him, were unceasingly to proclaim terror, on account of the obstinate wickedness of the people, until the temple should be burnt and the city destroyed, and the Jews carried into captivity, it was necessary that such severity should be mitigated towards believers by some consolation of hope.

"Secondly, as they were to languish in captivity, and as their minds were shaken, even after their return (Note well! Calvin makes clear by this statement that he does not regard the return of the remnant and the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the Temple as the ultimate Fulfillment of this Prophetic Vision), by a succession of varied calamities, and at length were almost overwhelmed with despair by the dreadful desolation and confusion, they might a hundred times have fainted, if they had not been upheld" (p. 91).

That Calvin does not view this Prophecy as being fulfilled in some earthly sense (pre- or post-millennial) is obvious from his interpretation of "the last of the days" of verse two. Calvin writes, "When he mentions the end or completion of days, let us remember that he is speaking of the Kingdom of Christ" (p. 91).

The reason why the Lord refers to the Kingdom of Christ as "the last of the days" is that until that time everything may be said to be in a "state of suspense, that the people might not fix their eyes on the present condition of things, which was only a shadow, but on the Redeemer, by Whom the reality would be declared" (p. 91). Calvin continues by making the point that since Christ came in His First Advent, we of the New Testament era have arrived at The End of the Ages, or, as the text puts it, "the last of the days."

Ephesians 4:15,16;
"But speaking the Truth in love, may grow up into Him in all things, which is the Head, even Christ:"

The saints by this Prophecy were urged to extend their hope to The End of the Ages. Under Christ the condition of the church would be perfected. To Him, the Redeemer and His Restored, perfected Kingdom is the Faith and Hope of the saints directed. In the fierce storms about to descend upon the church in Babylon's captivity, every believer "seized on this word as a plank, that by means of it he might be floated into the harbour. Yet it ought to be observed, that while the Fullness of Days began at the Coming of Christ, it flows on in uninterrupted progress until He Appears the Second Time for our Salvation (Hebrews 9:28)" (p. 92).

In The Last of the Days, verse two through four reveals, "the mountain of the Lord's House shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow into it.

"And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the House of the God of Jacob; and He Will Teach us of His Ways, and we will walk in His Paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the Word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

"And He shall Judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore."


Calvin views this as a wonderful vision of the glorification of the churches which shall take place when "Christ appears the Second Time, without sin unto Salvation" (Heb. 9:28). God, Calvin insists, intended by this vision to bring consolation to support the minds of the people during the captivity (p. 93). God gave the vision "… so that, although there should be no Temple and no sacrifices, and though all should be in ruins, still this Hope would be cherished in the minds of the godly, and amidst a condition so desolate and so shockingly ruinous, they would still reason thus: 'The mountain of the Lord is indeed forsaken, but there He Will yet have His Habitation; and greater shall be the Glory of this mountain than of all others.' To prevent them, therefore, from doubting that such would be the result, the Prophet has here, as it were, sketched a picture in which they might behold the Glory of God…" (p. 93).

Ephesians 3:21; "Unto Him be Glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all Ages, World without end. Amen."

The vision holds before us the glory of God in His church brought to completion. The elect, not just out of Judah but out of all nations, shall flow into the exalted mountain of God's churches. There they will be taught the ways of the Lord. As a fruit of this teaching, they will walk in the Paths of God. The reason is that out of Zion will go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

Hebrews 12:22
"But you are come to mount Sion, and to the City of the Living God, the Heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of Angels,"

This prophecy, Calvin holds, "… was fulfilled, when the preaching of the Gospel began at that very place, (for Christ first taught at Jerusalem, and afterwards His Doctrine was spread throughout the whole world,)…"

Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All Power is given unto Me in Heaven and in Earth.

19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have Commanded you: and, lo, I Am with you alway, even unto The End of the World."


Not only so, but Calvin points out that this prophecy was a great consolation to the apostles as well! "And undoubtedly," he writes, "this had very great authority and weight with the Apostles, when they knew that they were appointed to perform those things which are here promised. Otherwise they would never have had courage enough to venture to undertake the office, and, in short, would not have been able to endure the burden, especially when the whole world furiously opposed them" (p. 98).
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
Nope. The Last enemy that shall be destroyed is death (1 Cor. 15:24-28). Do you believe this foe has been deatroyed?

1 Corinthians 15:27; "For He hath Put all things under His Feet. But when He saith, all things are Put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did Put all things under Him.

In Right God the Father has Given to Jesus an Authoritative Power over all things, and a Right to Dispose of them at His Pleasure; whereas in the course of time, All things as yet are not Put under Him in fact, if we take and make that sense, of "Put all things under His Feet" to have to mean, "ultimately completely destroyed"; and yet we have just read that in the Reality of God, as He Sees it, God, "hath Put all things under His Feet."

1 Corinthians 15:26;

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
A corporeal death is here meant;
It is, indeed, through the Blood, Righteousness, and Sacrifice of Christ, death is the last enemy that will be ultimatly destroyed in Time; Satan was the first enemy of mankind, who attacked, tempted, and ruined the first parents of human nature, and all their posterity in them; and by this means, sin, the next enemy, came into the world of men; and, last of all, death and as it was the last enemy that came into the world, it is the last that will go out of it;

1 Corinthians 15:27;
"For He hath put all things under His Feet. But when He saith, all things are Put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did Put all things under Him."
And yet, God has Put all things under the Feet of the man Christ Jesus
, Who Took and Bore all the sinless infirmities of human nature; to the confusion of His enemies; and has put all things under His Feet, which are all things animate and inanimate, the whole Creation and Universe of things, the world and its fulness, the Earth, of which Jesus is Heir of the world, and has a Right to it, and to dispose of it, not merely as the Creator, but as Mediator; it is Put in Subjection to Him to make use of, and what is in it to Subserve His Mediatorial Kingdom and His Glory; when His ends are answered by it, the Earth and all that is therein shall be burnt up, and a New Earth arise out of it, in which Christ and His people will dwell."


28 "And when all things shall be Subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be Subject unto Him that Put all things under Him, that God may be all in all."

"And when all things shall be subdued unto Him",.... all things as yet are not Put under Him in fact; though in Right God the Father has Given to Jesus an Authoritative Power over all things, and a Right to Dispose of them at His Pleasure; but all things are not actually and in their full extent Subject to Him, IF WE TAKE THE MEANING OF "SUBDUED" and "Him that Put all things under Him", TO MEAN, "UTTERLY DESTROYED", yet they will be when the last enemy is destroyed.


If you don't believe death has been destroyed, Psalm 110:1 hasn't been fulfilled
Christ has His enemies; all the enemies of His people are His enemies;
some are overcome already by Him, as sin, Satan, and the world;
and the Jews, His enemies, who would not have Him to reign over them, have been destroyed,

so if we say "Death is swallowed up in Victory", in I Corinthians 15:54 and where God the Father, "put all things under His Feet in Subjection", in 1 Corinthians 15:27; "For He hath put all things under His Feet...all things are Put under Him", MEANS GOD THE FATHER ALREADY MADE, "Thine enemies Thy footstool", BY ALL OF HIS ENEMIES BEING UNDER HIS SUBJECTION, WHERE DEATH IS EVEN SWALLOWED UP IN THE VICTORY OF JESUS' GLORIOUS RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD AS POWER AND VICTORY OVER DEATH, EVEN THOUGH THEIR ARE ENEMIES OF JESUS CHRIST THAT ARE YET TO BE UTTERLY DETROYED,

BUT THEN, INSTEAD WE SAY THAT,
"Thine enemies Thy footstool", HASN'T BEEN ENTIRELY COMPLETED, BECAUSE THEIR REMAINS, IN THE COURSE TIME,
The Antichrist, and the kings of the Earth that are with him, that are yet to be overcome by Jesus, and eventually utterly destroyed, as will be the beast and false prophet who will be Taken and Cast into The Lake of Fire; where also the old serpent, the devil, after he has been bound and loosed, will be Cast likewise; and then ultimately the last enemy, death, shall be destroyed, then if that is what you want to have, "Until I Make Thine enemies Thy footstool", mean, then untill that time comes, at The Doom of Satan in Revelation 20 and 20:14; when "death and hell were Cast into the Lake of Fire",

then Christ Reigns now and Will Reign from Heaven, over His saints on Earth, until His Second Coming, when all His enemies will destroyed and that is when God said, "I Will Make Thine enemies Thy footstool", is finally Fulfilled, then Jesus Will Reign afterwards too, even to all Eternity, in The New Heaven and The New Earth.


and when all of Christ's foes are made his footstool

and when all of Christ's foes are made his footstool, then Christ will no longer sit at the right hand of the Father.
to say, "then Christ will no longer sit at the right hand of the Father", is FANTASTIC, but is not part of the Revelation of God in The Bible.
Note the word until in Psalm 110:1.
Do you really want to say that? That the word, "until" is supposed to contain this whole wealth of extrabiblical meaning to it? to say, "then Christ will no longer sit at the right hand of the Father". That is as farfetched as it comes.
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”
Jesus was to Rule at The Right Hand of The Throne of God, until God Gave Jesus all things under His Subjection, to their complete distruction at His Second Coming, as above, at which Time Jesus Rules still from The Throne of God, Forever, as God of The Universe, with God the Father.
What was the error of Hymenaeus and Philetus, again (2 Tim. 2:17)?
They did not keep to the Scriptures of Truth, but deviated from them; they missed that mark, and went astray into gross errors and mistakes; rejected the Gospel, the word of Truth, in general, and particularly in saying, that the Resurrection is past already; and no other Resurrection is to be expected;

or that there was no future Resurrection of the dead: their error was, as some think, that there is no other Resurrection than that of parents in their children, who, though they die, live in their posterity;

or rather, that there is no other Resurrection than the Spiritual one, or Regeneration, which is a Quickening of dead sinners, or the Resurrection of them from the death of sin, to a Life of Grace; which seems to be the truest account of their principle, seeing this is what has been received and propagated by others since Hymenaeus and Philetus. 2 Timothy 2 Gill's Exposition
 
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Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
There is nothing stated "at the end of this post", shown above, where I have said anything about, "there is a distinction between Jesus' throne and the Father's throne."

Lacking consistency and foresight just like your God. What a surprise. You and your equivocations are just like this false god you have created (Psalm 115:8).

Psalm 115:8 KJV
They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.
As cute as your attempts to hurl spitballs at a Battleship are, you really should have left them on the back seat of the bus, in forth grade.
Dispensational, Premillennial Deity doesnt lack consistency and foresight.
Dispensational teaching tells us that they know Jesus will Return after 6,000 years of human history, to be followed by a one thousand year reign of Jesus, to complete God overall Timetable for mankind of 7,000 years. And, yet Jesus said, "But of that Day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the Angels which are in Heaven, neither the Son, but the Father", so as far as they know, Jesus may not Return for another 5,000 or 25,000 years, but their testimony is that they know what The Father Only Knows. God Only Knows what's wrong with some people.

Then, there is the additional case of the term, "Premillennial", which professes for its namesake the existance of a "millennial" that they profess as part of their religion, to exist within the Realm of Sanity and Reality, when it doesn't exist within the Realm of Sanity or Reality, either one, according to no less than God, Himself, The Author of The Holy Bible, Who Handily Dispences with their entire man-made theory, from A to Z, with the citation of just one, single, solatary verse;

Revelation 20:4;

"And I saw Thrones, and they sat upon them,
and Judgment was Given unto them
:

"and I saw the souls of them
that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God
,
and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;

"and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

The terms "David's throne" and "Israel" always consitently mean just that.

Since you want to examine the Premillennial view of the term "David's throne", one of the most important things for us to consider is where that throne of David might be. David's throne was the throne of God on Earth, but now it is Christ's Throne in Heaven.

From the statement by Premillennialist Hal Lindsey we can see that the Premillennial teaching has Christ, after His Return, setting up a thousand year Kingdom of God on Earth. It is claimed that Christ will Rule from the throne of David at Jerusalem.

"Most ministers and religious leaders today reject even the possibility that Christ will establish an actual physical Kingdom of God on Earth. Many who believe in a Personal Return of Christ reject that He will establish a thousand year Kingdom of God and Rule mortals from the throne of David out of Jerusalem after His Return"

Hal Lindsey, 'The Late Great Planet Earth'.pdf, chapter 13.


In contrast, Paul says, "God Raised Christ from the dead
and Seated Him at His Right Hand in the Heavenly Realm,

"far above all rule and authority and power and dominion,
and every name that is named, not only in this Age,
but also in the one to come,

"and He Put all things under His Feet in Subjection,
and Gave Him Headship over all things to the church
which is His body, the fulness of Him Who Fills all in all"
(Ephesians 1:19-23).


the prophets, who spoke both of Messiah's piercing and of His mighty return to Jerusalem to reign from there forever (Zechariah 12:6, 10; 14:3ff; Psalm 22; etc.).

"the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
the Earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up,"

is a phrase directly from the Bible, specifically from 2 Peter 3:10,
which describes a cataclysmic event
where the Earth will be destroyed by intense fire,
signifying The End of Time and The Day of Judgement in Christian belief.

Ever hear of it?

10
"But The Day of The Lord Will Come as a thief in the night;
in the which the Heavens shall Pass Away with a great noise,

"and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
the Earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
I did, in a previous post.

Share it with us, if so. You wouldn't lie to us about this would you?

Your bias conveniently blinded you to it.

My only bias is toward Honoring God, and His Word, and His Son.

Now, instead of catering to your derangement, you can scroll up yourself and do the "hard work" of reading your own lengthy posts and my comparatively short posts.

Actually, I can't be bored by your little games or your short worthless posts.

Funny how you can't even read your own posts yet you expect us all to.

My posts are only applicable to the one who doesn't mind learning something.
 

Jope

Active Member
Site Supporter
For @Alan Dale Gross
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Jope

Active Member
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For @Alan Dale Gross
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Jope

Active Member
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Since you want to examine the Premillennial view of the term "David's throne",
Well would you look at that, the person who reads foreign material into texts and forgets what he writes is now putting words in my mouth. Not surprising!
Where did I state that I "want to examine the premillennial view of the term 'David's throne'"?
 

Jope

Active Member
Site Supporter
As cute as
Where?
your attempts to hurl
where?
spitballs at a Battleship
where?
are, you really should have left them
where?
on the back seat of the bus,
where?
in forth grade.
where?
, to exist within the Realm of Sanity
Where?
 
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