Do people never hearing about Jesus go to Hell?

[Robert J Hutton]

Warm Christian greetings!

With regards to the question "Will those who don't hear the Gospel go to Hell?" may I suggest the following answer:

In Romans 8 v 29-30 we read a golden chain. It teaches quite clearly that all those whom God has elected will be saved. It follows, therefore, that if God has chosen a particular person for salvation, even if he/she lives in a so-called "closed country" then the Lord will ensure that the Gospel gets to that person.

The Lord who ordains the end, ordains the means to that end. Please read Acts 13 v 48.

Kind regards

Robert J Hutton

 

[onevoice]

Quote from Baptist Believer:
Not trying to nit-pick, but the Bible doesn't use the lingo "personal savior".
-----------------------------------------------

Ok. . maybe I am not as educated as some of you guys, but if you do not have take the act of repentance for salvation is it not a doctrine of works? What about Romans 10:9? This has always been a strong point in leading people to Christ, is that verse unnecessary? Would like to know more about some of your beliefs. Very interesting to see that Baptists differ in so many beliefs. Also, what about 1 Cor. 1:21??

(not picking on you Baptist Believer, just very interested in your opinions in this matter. . and anyone else who believes that we can be saved through other means than the written or spoken Word of God.)

 

[cojosh]

Hey Baptist BelieveR,

I said the Holy Spirit is dependant upon the Word of God. Including both spoken & written. OT it was spoken to Abraham. Today, it is revealed to us through the written word and spoken to us through the Spirit. The thing is the Holy Spirit will not contradict the Holy Scriptures. According to Acts 4:12 there is no other name by which people can be saved. If someone hasn't ever heard of Christ's work on Calvary, How can they place faith in Him?

 

[cojosh]

Hey Baptist Believer,

I said the Holy Spirit is dependant upon the Word of God. Including both spoken & written. In the OT it was spoken to Abraham. Today, it is revealed to us through the written word and spoken to us through the Spirit. The thing is the Holy Spirit will not contradict the Holy Scriptures. According to Acts 4:12 there is no other name by which people can be saved. If someone hasn't ever heard of Christ's work on Calvary, How can they place faith in Him?

 

[cojosh]

Baptist Believer wrote:
Why do you insist that the Spirit is somehow limited by a person having the written word of God or the written word spoken by a human being in order to enlighten someone. Again, what about Abraham, the patriarchs and Moses? God certainly spoke to them and they witness to us. They were certainly "saved".

__________________________________________________

I believe that people can look at God's handiwork and accept the fact that there is a god,higher being, etc. but that doesn't save their soul.
Salvation has requirements according to the "written word". They are Confession in Acts 2:21 ; Repentance in Mark 1:15 ; Faith in John 3:14-18 ; Regeneration in John 3:3-8 ; Holy Scripture in 2 Tim. 3:15 It's not mandatory that a person need the "written word" in hand when they are being converted, but it is mandatory that they have the Truth. Since we know the Scriptures are true, it would be foolish not to depend totally on them. The Holy Spirit has always existed, along with the Father & Son. All three Heads gave the Word when spoken & written. Since He is perfect he is going to stand by His perfect Word. He cannot lie. As far as Abraham & Moses, I wouldn't compare their God-given "position" to anyone in our age. It's true they are humans just like everyone else but these men were used to fulfil God's phrophesies concerning His Son which we can find in the "written word". The Institution of God's nation is a lot different than the Insitution of His church. God does not speak the same to Israel as He does to the church. Different time with a different purpose. God's Spirit just doesn't fall on people like it once did. Now it is linked to the earthly work of His Holy Son. Christ gave the Spirit as a gift to the believers. Can't receive the gift if you don't know who Christ is. Abraham & Moses do witness to us along with the OT patriarchs, NT apostles, etc. through the "written word". If we didn't have it, they wouldn't witness to us. A relationship birthed by God's handiwork might produce a convert. A relationship based on God's Word concerning His Son will confirm a conversion. We preach so that they will know not think or hope.

 

[cojosh]

Baptist Believer wrote:
Certainly God (the Father, Son or Spirit) can bring the truth directly to us if we do not have access to the written word. Even when we do have the written word, God still comes to us and we experience Him in a way that is distinct from our Bible reading experience.
__________________________________________________

God does come to His children in a way distinct from Bible reading because we belong to Him. Our sins have been covered by the blood of Christ so He can have a relationship with us. He will not have any type of personal relationship with a lost person because of the sin. It has to be forgiven before God will communicate with the lost. The only interaction between God and the unsaved is conviction, but if a person has never heard the Gospel message what would cause him to be convicted. What would that person do if he was convicted. Confess something that he has no possible way of confessing. Repenting to Someone without a name. No, Christ must be presented before someone can accept Him.

 

[cojosh]

Baptist Believer wrote:
True. But the word of God does not have to be written. God can and does speak to people who do not have access to the written word even today. Missionaries tell stories about this. My mother in many ways came to faith without even knowing a Bible existed.

__________________________________________________

I agree. It isn't the actual book that saves. It's the truth it contains. The Bible doesn't have to be present for God to work. Just the Truth. Sorry I didn't make myself clearer early concerning the "written word".

 

[Optional]

Originally posted by cojosh:
Baptist Believer wrote:
Why do you insist that the Spirit is somehow limited by a person having the written word of God or the written word spoken by a human being in order to enlighten someone. Again, what about Abraham, the patriarchs and Moses? God certainly spoke to them and they witness to us. They were certainly "saved".

__________________________________________________

I believe that people can look at God's handiwork and accept the fact that there is a god,higher being, etc. but that doesn't save their soul.
Salvation has requirements according to the "written word". They are Confession in Acts 2:21 ; Repentance in Mark 1:15 ; Faith in John 3:14-18 ; Regeneration in John 3:3-8 ; Holy Scripture in 2 Tim. 3:15 It's not mandatory that a person need the "written word" in hand when they are being converted, but it is mandatory that they have the Truth. Since we know the Scriptures are true, it would be foolish not to depend totally on them. The Holy Spirit has always existed, along with the Father & Son. All three Heads gave the Word when spoken & written. Since He is perfect he is going to stand by His perfect Word. He cannot lie. As far as Abraham & Moses, I wouldn't compare their God-given "position" to anyone in our age. It's true they are humans just like everyone else but these men were used to fulfil God's phrophesies concerning His Son which we can find in the "written word". The Institution of God's nation is a lot different than the Insitution of His church. God does not speak the same to Israel as He does to the church. Different time with a different purpose. God's Spirit just doesn't fall on people like it once did. Now it is linked to the earthly work of His Holy Son. Christ gave the Spirit as a gift to the believers. Can't receive the gift if you don't know who Christ is. Abraham & Moses do witness to us along with the OT patriarchs, NT apostles, etc. through the "written word". If we didn't have it, they wouldn't witness to us. A relationship birthed by God's handiwork might produce a convert. A relationship based on God's Word concerning His Son will confirm a conversion. We preach so that they will know not think or hope.

cojosh,
I accepted just one minute ago that there is a One True God and He is creator. Next minute a car slams into my house killing me. Where did I go?

 

[cojosh]

Robert Hutton wrote:

In Romans 8 v 29-30 we read a golden chain. It teaches quite clearly that all those whom God has elected will be saved. It follows, therefore, that if God has chosen a particular person for salvation, even if he/she lives in a so-called "closed country" then the Lord will ensure that the Gospel gets to that person.

The Lord who ordains the end, ordains the means to that end. Please read Acts 13 v 48.

__________________________________________________

I sure am glad that I was elected. I feel bad for those who were not. Oh well, nothing we can do for them. 2 Pet. 3:9

Peter didn't know what he was talking about.

 

[Optional]

cojosh,
I accepted just one minute ago that there is a One True God and He is creator. Next minute a car slams into my house killing me. Where did I go?

 

[Robert J Hutton]

Warm Christian greetings!

Reply to Mr "cojosh":

2 Peter 3 v 9 clearly refers to the elect rather than the whole human race. We know this because
Peter says "the Lord is long suffering toward us".
At the beggining of the letter he makes it clear that it is addressed to believers (c. 1 v. 1).

This is not the right thread to discuss this particular point as it amounts to a Calvinism/Arminianism question, but I felt I had to put the record straight on what our brother said in his post.

It would be interesting to see if anyone has opened a thread on 2 Peter 3 v 9, as it should prove intriguing to see what interpretations (or misinterpretations) people have of this verse.

Kind regards

Robert J Hutton

 

[cojosh]

I accepted just one minute ago that there is a One True God and He is creator. Next minute a car slams into my house killing me. Where did I go?
_________________________________________________
"Thou believest that there is one God ; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
James 2:19

What is your Creator's name?
Did he redeem you?

 

[cojosh]

Hi Robert Hutton,

Jesus is the propituation(full payment) for our sins; and not ours only but for the whole world.
1 John 2:2

 

[cojosh]

Hi Robert,

"I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

1 Timothy 2:1-4

"all men" can't be referring to the elect only.

 

[cojosh]

cojosh wrote:
God holds His Word up higher than His name.
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Baptist Believer responded:
That's an interesting statement. Where do you get that idea?
__________________________________________________

"I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name."

Psalm 138:2

Sorry I didn't include the scripture earlier.

 

[Optional]

Originally posted by cojosh:
I accepted just one minute ago that there is a One True God and He is creator. Next minute a car slams into my house killing me. Where did I go?
_________________________________________________
"Thou believest that there is one God ; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
James 2:19

What is your Creator's name?
Did he redeem you?

So you're a "snapshot" Christian? One verse anywhere in the Bible is not context. James was speaking to mature Christians in the "whole passage". My scenario was not about that.
Thanks for trying, though.

 

[cojosh]

Hi Optional,

The point I was trying to make is that the devils believe in One True God & believe He created everything, but they're not going to heaven. There are alot of people who believe this but that doesn't mean beans if they have never heard the gospel of Christ. People can't have a relationship with someone they've never came in contact with. I'm sorry if my response wasn't clear, but I think now that I've explained you'll see what I was trying to get across. I'm not a "snap-shot" Christian.

 

[Graceforever]

The harvest is truly plenty, but the laborers are few…. God once winked at ignorance, not any more…

Romans 10:16

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

 

[Optional]

Originally posted by cojosh:
Hi Optional,

The point I was trying to make is that the devils believe in One True God & believe He created everything, but they're not going to heaven. There are alot of people who believe this but that doesn't mean beans if they have never heard the gospel of Christ. People can't have a relationship with someone they've never came in contact with. I'm sorry if my response wasn't clear, but I think now that I've explained you'll see what I was trying to get across. I'm not a "snap-shot" Christian.

So in my scenario - that person goes to hell?

 

[cojosh]

So in my scenario - that person goes to hell?
__________________________________________________

If that person has never been confronted by the Holy Spirit with the gospel of Christ, that person goes to Hell.

Acts 4:12