Do people never hearing about Jesus go to Hell?

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by onevoice:
Would like to know more about some of your beliefs.
(not picking on you Baptist Believer, just very interested in your opinions in this matter. . and anyone else who believes that we can be saved through other means than the written or spoken Word of God.)

First, I want to apologize for not responding sooner... I somehow stopped following this thread and didn't realize that there were responses...

Second, I want to apologize for not being able to respond to all of you questions tonight. It's well after midnight here and I have to be sharp for church tomorrow. I'll try to respond tomorrow afternoon or evening.

Third, I did not intend to give you the impression that I believe someone can be saved without the "spoken word of God." The way I understand it, if the Holy Spirit is dealing with a person and they accept the revelation that is given to all humankind (the creation and a moral law written in the heart), then the Spirit provides more truth -- speaking God's word to the heart of the individual and providing the opportunity for saving faith.

I know I didn't really answer your questions yet, but I'll elaborate more tomorrow.

Thanks!

 

[Doug Stevens]

I have only recently learned that there are people claiming to be Christians that believe that the Lost are utterly destroyed in Hell rather than experiencing ever lasting torment. Is this destruction in Hell some new heresy being preached by some cult? I ask this because I've never heard of it. Is this cult being sponsored by the Evolutionists? Afterall, the Evolutionists would want nothing better than to use some cultic church to preach that the Lost will simply cease to exist after they die. This heresy sounds like a very dangerous attack against the truth of the Bible.

 

[Optional]

JW's believe in it.

 

[Terry_Herrington]

Interesting topic.

I believe that if someone responds to the light that that they have, God will provide more light. It just so happens that I am reading a book by Bill Rice (John Rice's brother), "Cowboy Boots in Darkest Africa." This book is about a missionary trip Bill Rice took back in the 1950s to Africa. During this trip he recounts an incident in which a person was saved after hearing the Gospel. This person was a native who had no idea about salvation. However, he would climb a tree at night and look up into the sky and ask if there was a God and if this God knew who he was. I believe that God sent Bill Rice to Africa in order to reach this soul for Christ.

This book is available through the Bill Rice Ranch at http://www.billriceranch.org/.

 

[Johnv]

This is an intersting topic, because Jesus often talkes about people hearing his voice. One could presume that the choice of accepting or rejecting is up to the person who has heard his voice. On the other hand, the bible also talks about people who are never delivered from their sinful nature.

So which is it? I really don't know. To make sure, we should probably make sure that the Gospel reaches as many people as possible, and that those people truly hear the Gospel, not just hear of it.

 

[Scott_Bushey]

Baptistbeliever writes:
"Therefore, as Abraham came to faith in God without any sort of gospel presentation..."

Scott writes:
Gal 3:8 supports a gospel presentation to Abraham.

 

[Scott_Bushey]

Cojosh writes:
This clearly states: NO PREACHING, NO HEARING!
NO HEARING, NO BELIEVING! NO BELIEVING, NO CALLING! and finally NO CALLING, NO CONVERSION!

Excellent scripture! But I ask, what do we do with the idea of infants who die? The imbecile? How can you reconcile the passage you present with this truth? Based upon what you present as defense, all infants and the unlearned (the imbecile) go to hell and perish.

 

[Johnv]

If we assume that God has made provisions for those who have not heard his voice (aka, children, imbiciles, etc), then we must accept the possibility that all people who have not heard the Gospel have an opportunity to accept Christ. When that happens is anyone's guess. I know some talk about the age of accountability, but that seems to be more our definition.

Unfortunately, the Bible is pretty silent on the topic, so we've got to take a leap of faith in these matters.

 

[Scott_Bushey]

Johnv,
So then faith does not (necessarily) come by having heard the word of God? Rom 10:17

 

[tyndale1946]

Let me pose one question is the Faith that we have of Christ Jesus or in Christ Jesus?... Because there is a difference. The reason I have Faith in Christ Jesus is because of the Faith of Christ Jesus. You brethren are using the hearing of the gospel in the mode of gospel regeneration but these scripture says God performs ALL the work... Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us... The Living Gospel or Word Of God is the only thing necessary for Salvation... The written gospel is a written record what the Living Gospel accomplished in obtaining the Salvation for ALL his blood bought children!... Is the written gospel and the hearing of it necessary for eternal salvation? If it is someone visit the scene of the crucifiction because one man went to paradise and the other man didn't and the gospel was never preached to the one that went to paradise!... But there was a change in one man why not the other?... Brother Glen

[ August 22, 2002, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey:
Johnv,
So then faith does not (necessarily) come by having heard the word of God? Rom 10:17

I'm not challenging the verse, I'm just saying either God makes provisions for those who haven't heard or He doesn't. If He doesn't, then we must accept that children (both born and unborn), mentally incapacitated people, and the like are condemned. If we believe that God provides an avenue for somehow hearing His word for them, then we must consider the possibility that God may provide the same avenue for adults in the world who have never heard the word.

[ August 22, 2002, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

 

[Scott_Bushey]

Glenn,
Well said brother! What you present is exactly my point. One does not have to *literally* hear the word of God in order for God to show mercy upon who He may. If so, this would exclude the imbecile and infants.

 

[Scott_Bushey]

Amen Johnv!

 

[tyndale1946]

How does the Lord call his children?... In the still small voice that speaks to the heart. The same voice that changed Saul of Tarsus to Paul when no other but Saul of Tarsus heard it!... Brother Glen

 

[onevoice]

If ignorance is bliss, why tell anyone. They would be better off not knowing about Christ, because THEN they would be accountable.

Sorry, I don't buy this line of thought. We are commanded to "GO" for an important reason. . .so that others may "Confess with their mouth and believe in their heart" so that they, too can be saved.

 

[Scott_Bushey]

Onevoice,
no one is implying that you should not fulfill the commision. What we are implying, is that infants and imbeciles, or those who have never heard the gospel are not neccesarily excluded from the equation as if this were the case, then all clinically diagnosed imbeciles, and infants would perish.

 

[tyndale1946]

I have an at birth profoundly Deaf Son now 21!... Anyone want to defend the hearing issue now?... Is Gods calling for the ears or to the heart? Preach the gospel all you like he can't hear you!... What do you do now?... Brother Glen

[ August 23, 2002, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]

 

[Daniel David]

So you deny biblical truth because your son is deaf?

Instead of dancing around the issue, Glen, deal with Romans 10:9-17 and 1 Cor. 1:21-2:5. Your argument is with Scripture, not me. I only appeal to those texts.

 

[Scott_Bushey]

2Tim,
Please examine my position........what does one do to reconcile the infant and the clinically diagnosed imbecile? From the other side of the coin, it is either one of two ideas.
1) All infants and imbeciles are automatically saved, outside of the orthodox position of actually having heard the gospel, or.....
2) All infants and the undescernable go to Hell based upon the fact that they cannot understand the gospel and have never heard it.

Now we know that all infants and imbeciles ar not *all* saved, and we also can acknowledge that not everyone of them go to heven by default.

The scripturally harmonized idea is that God saves. Not men. Paul himself stated:
Gal 1:11 And, brothers, I make known to you the gospel preached by me, that it is not according to man.
Gal 1:12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but by a revelation of Jesus Christ.

[ August 24, 2002, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]

 

[Daniel David]

Scott, the Scripture does not say one way or another definitely where babies and imbeciles go when they die. I believe they will all be in heaven. The Scriptures surely favor that position.

Anyway, why in the world would you try and build a doctrine around what isn't explicitely stated in Scripture? Since you aren't going to get an answer about babies on this side, why are you trying to form a doctrine?