Do pheromones also work with humans?

[Gold Dragon]

But what things are controlled by the spirit for example? I don't see the spirit doing anything. Let's say the spirit causes emotions like joy or fear then where is the difference between this and emotions which are not caused by the spirit? How do we even know wether the spirit does anything?

I believe all things are both spiritual and physical. There are biological reasons for joy and fear. And at the same time there are spiritual reasons for those emotions. There are biological reasons for us to breathe, and there are also spiritual reasons. Just because something is biological or physical doesn't mean it isn't also spiritual.

I also read something about scientists proving that faith actually happens in the brain. They put a christian in a PET scan and this way they could show which areas of the brain are used to create faith. If this is true then how do we even know if faith isn't simply something which is totally based on the brain?

I would not be surprised if the brain played a very important role in faith, especially my faith which is very "heady", sometimes to its detriment. But that doesn't nullify that my faith is also a spiritual faith.

And just because we don't understand the brain completely doesn't mean that there has to be a spirit.

Not at all. I think we have a pretty reasonable understanding of the germ theory of disease (ie bacteria and viruses causeing illness) and how to cure many of them. But that doesn't nullify the spiritual aspect of God causing and healing disease or spiritual "causes" for physical diseases by bacteria, viruses, genetics, prions, chemicals, etc.

And all these christians which think that their spirit is in charge and that they control their bodies and "reign" over their flesh might be totally wrong without even knowing it.

I don' t think there is anything wrong with trying to have the spirit control the flesh. But as the bible often tells us, the flesh is weak. And when we say the flesh is weak, we really mean that the flesh is stronger than the spirit when we don't want it to be.

With all these hormones influencing us how do we even know wether we really love a person or wether or body simply react in a certain way to this person? Maybe we're just slaves to our brains and only think that we are in control when in reality it's just the other way around.

These hormones are us. So if our love for someone has hormonal influences, that is us loving someone. Our brain is us. If our brain tells us to love someone, that is us loving someone. Are we in control of our brain? What does that question really mean if our brain is an integral part of us?

 

[xdisciplex]

But this makes no sense. If our brain simply acts as a "translator" for our spirit then this would mean that basically everything starts in the spirit and is then translated by the brain. Every emotion is first of all spiritual and then it is manifested in the body via the brain. But this isn't correct. If it was so then we wouldn't be acting upon things which only influence the brain. If I take drugs then these drugs aren't spiritual they only affect my brain. And when being attracted to a woman is all about hormones and scents then everything is reduced to this materialistic level. Then instead of saying to a person "I love you" you could as well say "my brain reacts in a certain way to your scent and to your look which gives me a good feeling which could be translated with the term love". This is really romantic, isn't it? :laugh:
I mean what are we in the end? Are we our brain? Or are we our spirit? If I am a spirit then why am I so dependant on my brain? Shouldn't my will and everything be routed in my spirit and be totally separated from the brain? I think it should be, but this is not how it is.

 

[Gold Dragon]

But this makes no sense. If our brain simply acts as a "translator" for our spirit then this would mean that basically everything starts in the spirit and is then translated by the brain.

I never suggested that everything starts in the spirit and is translated by the brain. I don't believe this is true.

Every emotion is first of all spiritual and then it is manifested in the body via the brain. But this isn't correct.

I agree that this is not correct. There isn't this linear relationship between spirit and body.

If it was so then we wouldn't be acting upon things which only influence the brain. If I take drugs then these drugs aren't spiritual they only affect my brain.

That isn't true. Things that affect the physical also affect the spiritual. We are body and spirit.

And when being attracted to a woman is all about hormones and scents then everything is reduced to this materialistic level. Then instead of saying to a person "I love you" you could as well say "my brain reacts in a certain way to your scent and to your look which gives me a good feeling which could be translated with the term love". This is really romantic, isn't it? :laugh:

As I said earlier, just because hormones and pheromones play a part in physical attraction doesn't mean that is all there is to it.

I mean what are we in the end? Are we our brain? Or are we our spirit?

We are body and spirit. Without either we are not us.

If I am a spirit then why am I so dependant on my brain?

Because we are body and spirit. Our brain is an integral part of our body.

Shouldn't my will and everything be routed in my spirit and be totally separated from the brain?

No. We are body and spirit. They cannot be separated.

I think it should be, but this is not how it is.

I disagree that everything should be routed through spirit to body. The body is an equal part of who we are.
This extreme dualism of body and spirit and wanting to dissociate from the body has historically been a characteristic of Gnosticism.

 

[xdisciplex]

But if we are body AND spirit then what are we when he die?
This cannot be correct. When you die your body is dead, all which remains is your spirit this means that you, the real you, is actually your spirit and you only live in your body. Your body is like a shell. This is the only way it can be. If we are body and spirit then what about disabled or retarded people? These people had no hope whatsoever because if they are body and spirit then this means that they are retarded and they will also be retarded after dying and in heaven they will be retarded,too. This makes no sense. When you look at yourself in the mirror then what is the real you? What you see? Where is your personality? Is it located in the brain and only based on chemical reactions? This would be really depressing. This is exactly what atheists want us to believe that we are our brains and that everything we are is based on chemical reactions. This is a depressing thought.

From what I have read so far about these pheromones from pheromone users it looks like they really work. Some of them described that simply using these pheromones makes other people suddenly appreciate them more, be more open to them and so on. Some women described that using female pheromones which are supposed to attract me bring out the "animalistic" side of men. I just dont understand why God wires us this way to react upon such things. People also react upon drugs but the difference is that drugs are not natural but these pheromones are. Why did God create these mechanisms in humans? I animals they make sense. God has to somehow make sure that animals keep on reproducing but humans arent supposed to be like animals and to behave like them then why are they good for? If humans acted like animals and simply had sex with every person which attracts them then this would be a sin but these pheromones do just that. Where is the sense of men being attracted by certain female pheromones? To me such control mechanisms make no sense. For example if a married man works together with a woman which is just being fertile and producing these pheromones then the married husband will be attracted and turned on by these pheromones without even being aware or it, maybe without even wanting it and if he is turned on by it and attracted to the other woman then this is a sin and God condemns this but he was attracted to her because of mechanisms which God created. This makes no sense at all.
A woman which wants to destroy a marriage simply had to get these pheromones and then she could seduce the husband. This is totally sick. When God expects us to be monogamous why does he allow such things? The role of pheromones in the animal kingdom makes sense to me but not among humans. Humans don't need to be subconsciously influenced by pheromones.

 

[Gold Dragon]

But if we are body AND spirit then what are we when he die?
This cannot be correct. When you die your body is dead, all which remains is your spirit this means that you, the real you, is actually your spirit and you only live in your body. Your body is like a shell. This is the only way it can be.

While we are alive we are body and spirit. When we are dead, we are spirit. In both cases, I believe they are the real you.

If we are body and spirit then what about disabled or retarded people? These people had no hope whatsoever because if they are body and spirit then this means that they are retarded and they will also be retarded after dying and in heaven they will be retarded,too. This makes no sense.

I have an aunt who has down's syndrome. I wouldn't say she has no hope and I consider her to be a very special person just the way she is. What will she be like in heaven? I have no clue.

When you look at yourself in the mirror then what is the real you? What you see? Where is your personality? Is it located in the brain and only based on chemical reactions? This would be really depressing. This is exactly what atheists want us to believe that we are our brains and that everything we are is based on chemical reactions. This is a depressing thought.

Some pure materialistic atheists would hold this position. I think most atheists who deny God still see humans as more than simply chemical reactions. Most scientists are theists of some sort.

From what I have read so far about these pheromones from pheromone users it looks like they really work. Some of them described that simply using these pheromones makes other people suddenly appreciate them more, be more open to them and so on. Some women described that using female pheromones which are supposed to attract me bring out the "animalistic" side of men. I just dont understand why God wires us this way to react upon such things.

Chemicals have all sorts of effects on us but they are not all there is. It is one of many ways we communicate. But we also communicate with words and body language.

People also react upon drugs but the difference is that drugs are not natural but these pheromones are.

An fyi that most drugs are natural or derived from natural products. The field of drugs is much older than the new field of synthetic designer drugs.

Why did God create these mechanisms in humans? I animals they make sense. God has to somehow make sure that animals keep on reproducing but humans arent supposed to be like animals and to behave like them then why are they good for? If humans acted like animals and simply had sex with every person which attracts them then this would be a sin but these pheromones do just that. Where is the sense of men being attracted by certain female pheromones?

Has it ever been the case that males just have sex with any woman who produces pheromones? Even animals don't do that. Pheromones may be produced by humans for sexual attraction and cause sexual attraction. But sex is still something that is a lot more complicated than sexual attraction.

 

[Gold Dragon]

To me such control mechanisms make no sense.

I think this is where the main problem with your understanding of this lies. Pheromones and chemical signals are not control mechanisms. They influence biological and behavioural patterns, but they do not control behaviour.

For example if a married man works together with a woman which is just being fertile and producing these pheromones then the married husband will be attracted and turned on by these pheromones without even being aware or it, maybe without even wanting it and if he is turned on by it and attracted to the other woman then this is a sin and God condemns this but he was attracted to her because of mechanisms which God created. This makes no sense at all.

A woman which wants to destroy a marriage simply had to get these pheromones and then she could seduce the husband. This is totally sick. When God expects us to be monogamous why does he allow such things? The role of pheromones in the animal kingdom makes sense to me but not among humans. Humans don't need to be subconsciously influenced by pheromones.

There are lots of genetic and biological motivations for sin. The fight or flight response is a biological motivation for violence. Many Christians deny it but there is scientific evidence for genetic predispositions for homosexuality. Folks with problems in the satiation centre of the hypothalamus will likely be gluttons. Folks with chemical imbalances of dopamine and serotonin in the brain will be depressed and have a strong tendencies towards suicide. All these things are part of how God created us and the mechanisms in his creation.

So yes, sin isn't always fair. Some of us are biologically predisposed towards certain sins more than others. But ultimately, that predisposition does not "control" our behaviour. We still have a choice even though sometimes that choice is really, really difficult because of biochemical and physiological processes. But nobody said resisting sin was easy for any of us.

But by the grace of God, we are forgiven of all our sins no matter how predisposed or not predisposed we are to it. No matter how much biochemical and physiological processes may or may not have played a role in our sin. That is the good news of the cross.

 

[xdisciplex]

I dont know. From the testimonies which I have read from pheromone users it seems like those pheromones have a huge impact on people. People which like you may suddenly not like you anymore when you use pheromones or use too much of them. Somebody wrote that when he uses pheromones his little brother does not recognize him anymore and always asks who he is. This is very strange.
If the behavior of people is controlled by things such as pheromones then this is simply primitive. It's a joke. This totally reduces humans. Our whole intellect doesn't help us when we're heavily influenced by things which we aren't even aware of. Ever wondered why some people are "winners" and others are "losers" and it stays this way throughout their whole lives? Some people never get acceptance. Neither in school nor later in life because others simply don't respect them. What if all these things are simply based on primitive things such as hormones and pheromones? The "alpha" male which is dominant and aggressive gets respect and is accepted as the leader while the others aren't accepted. Maybe the explanation simply lies in things which we aren't even aware of. This is really depressing. I had expected humans to be more complicated. But in the end it's all about primitive stuff as pheromones. If you have the right scent then everybody likes you or respects you and if you don't have it then you simply don't have it. It's like natural selection for humans.