Do Sinners go to hell due to rejection of Christ/Or Their Sin Natures?

[Alive in Christ]

Iconoclast...

He wants to quote Spurgeon, but he does not understand the quote...no wonder he cannot understand the verses ,lol Spurgeon is speaking of persons who are already regenerated,who are already saved,lol AIC you are killing me here.....re-read the quote....

Well, of course you say that. Thats one of the classic diversionary tactics that I have noticed consistantly from calvinists when they *oops!* encounter a "problem".

Actually, however, he does in fact understand the quote. And he also understands the verses that you say that he also *dos'nt understand*.

But thank you for trying....the article did have scripture in it ,which is good
too bad the author did not understand the verses however.

Of course, he just didnt understand the scriptures. :tonofbricks:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Iconoclast...

He wants to quote Spurgeon, but he does not understand the quote...no wonder he cannot understand the verses ,lol Spurgeon is speaking of persons who are already regenerated,who are already saved,lol AIC you are killing me here.....re-read the quote....

Well, of course you say that.

Darn, If only he could have understood the quote.

Thats one of the classic diversionary tactics that I have noticed consistantly from calvinists when they *oops!* encounter a "problem".

Actually, however, he does in fact understand the quote. And he also understands the verses that you say that he also *dos'nt understand*.

But thank you for trying....the article did have scripture in it ,which is good
too bad the author did not understand the verses however.

Of course, he just didnt understand those verses. :tonofbricks:

 

[JesusFan]

I think there is a difference between "unbelief" which includes both those who never were exposed to the gospel, such as babies and infants, and those who heard and understood the gospel but did not fully trust in Christ. I think the punishment in Hades/Gehenna will vary with the individual, and be "more tolerable" for those who did not pile up as much wrath.

Think that ALL of us are born "into Adam" and so are part of the human condition, being that due to the Fall, we are born with sinful natures and estranged from God...
In the Cross of Christ, God has 'allowed" for the sins of those like babies to be "forbaded/not remitted towards them" until they become personally accountibility to God for them...

IF that is how God also ideals those who have never heard the Gospel message, do not know...

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast...



Well, of course you say that. Thats one of the classic diversionary tactics that I have noticed consistantly from calvinists when they *oops!* encounter a "problem".

Actually, however, he does in fact understand the quote. And he also understands the verses that you say that he also *dos'nt understand*.



Of course, he just didnt understand the scriptures. :tonofbricks:

AIC,,

Quote:
Charles Spurgeon recognized the folly of saying that the sinner must be regenerated before he can believe:

"If I am to preach the faith in Christ to a man who is regenerated, then the man, being regenerated, is saved already, and it is an unnecessary and ridiculous thing for me to preach Christ to him, and bid him to believe in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate. Am I only to preach faith to those who have it? Absurd, indeed! Is not this waiting till the man is cured and then bringing him the medicine? This is preaching Christ to the righteous and not to sinners." [Sermon entitled The Warrant of Faith].

He wants to quote Spurgeon, but he does not understand the quote...no wonder he cannot understand the verses ,lol Spurgeon is speaking of persons who are already regenerated,who are already saved,lol AIC you are killing me here.....re-read the quote....

AIC,

Sorry about the accidental double post

Yes..it was sorry indeed!
no diversionary tactic, no dancing , no anything, maybe you could use that hooked on phonics program....I cannot read it for you.

and bid him to believe in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate

Hint:
You see where he says.. when he is saved already,being regenerate

your friend said this;
[QUOTECharles Spurgeon recognized the folly of saying that the sinner must be regenerated before he can believe:

]

Spurgeon says it would be folly....the regenerated person is saved already.

I like how you not only mis-read this with your friend, like Haman

9And Harbonah, one of the chamberlains, said before the king, Behold also, the gallows fifty cubits high, which Haman had made for Mordecai, who spoken good for the king, standeth in the house of Haman. Then the king said, Hang him thereon.

10So they hanged Haman on the gallows that he had prepared for Mordecai. Then was the king's wrath pacified.

But you are already out of scriptural bullets to answer the discussion biblically.
you project your own situation on me or other calvinists.

If you are going to post...bring your a-game my friend

 

[Alive in Christ]

Iconolast...

You see, the problem is that you are a classic calvinist.

Generally speaking, most well indoctrinated calivinists seem to, many times, have a somewhat arrogant, smug, haughty attitude concerning thier theological system.

*WE have all the answers
*WE have everything figured out accuratly
*WE have the true gosple (you guys actually say ridiculous things like "calvinism is the gosple"

*Our theological system is so much better than Arminianism.

When the TRUTH is that there are good truths in calvinism...along with some falsehood.

Just like there is some good truth in non/cal theology...along with some falsehood.

But the horrible elitism that is so apparent in the calvinist camp is something that you guys HAVE to get rid of. It is a detriment. It is not good at all.

God bless.

 

[JesusFan]

Iconolast...

You see, the problem is that you are a classic calvinist.

Generally speaking, most well indoctrinated calivinists seem to, many times, have a somewhat arrogant, smug, haughty attitude concerning thier theological system.

*WE have all the answers
*WE have everything figured out accuratly
*WE have the true gosple (you guys actually say ridiculous things like "calvinism is the gosple"

*Our theological system is so much better than Arminianism.

When the TRUTH is that there are good truths in calvinism...along with some falsehood.

Just like there is some good truth in non/cal theology...along with some falsehood.

But the horrible elitism that is so apparent in the calvinist camp is something that you guys HAVE to get rid of. It is a detriment. It is not good at all.

God bless.

Think that also depends on WHEN someone came to believe in calvinism, were they 'raised" in a Church early on in it? Someone like me, saved by the Lord in College, NO Church background...

came with "fresh/cleam mind" to study the Bible and read other theologies and systems...

I came to accept "moderate" calvinism, but SO see their are still "problem passages" within the system, and DO see that Arminians have some valid points also...

I feel that calvinism, at least the TULIP aspect to it explains the Biblical "method" of salvation best, but would not say "only valid one"....

feel that both "camps" preach and teach same Jesus, differing on aspects of the salvation model, but to be honest here...

When we tell others about Jesus, Gospel plan of salvation, doesn't God still save people, regardless if we say they were "the elect" of God, or come to Christ by their "free will?"

After salvation, than can study deeper aspects of the Bible, and develop 'system" to understand its doctrines?

 

[Alive in Christ]

Think that also depends on WHEN someone came to believe in calvinism, were they 'raised" in a Church early on in it? Someone like me, saved by the Lord in College, NO Church background...

came with "fresh/cleam mind" to study the Bible and read other theologies and systems...

I came to accept "moderate" calvinism, but SO see their are still "problem passages" within the system, and DO see that Arminians have some valid points also...

I feel that calvinism, at least the TULIP aspect to it explains the Biblical "method" of salvation best, but would not say "only valid one"....

feel that both "camps" preach and teach same Jesus, differing on aspects of the salvation model, but to be honest here...

When we tell others about Jesus, Gospel plan of salvation, doesn't God still save people, regardless if we say they were "the elect" of God, or come to Christ by their "free will?"

After salvation, than can study deeper aspects of the Bible, and develop 'system" to understand its doctrines?

JesusFan...

EXCELLANT post. Just wonderfull.

I share you attitude, brother.

AiC

 

[Winman]

feel that both "camps" preach and teach same Jesus, differing on aspects of the salvation model, but to be honest here...

Do they preach the same Jesus? One believes Jesus wants all men everywhere to be saved, the other believes Jesus only wills that a few elect are saved and that all the rest perish.

Does that sound like the same Jesus to you?

 

[Aaron]

Do they preach the same Jesus? One believes Jesus wants all men everywhere to be saved, the other believes Jesus only wills that a few elect are saved and that all the rest perish.

Does that sound like the same Jesus to you?

My point exactly.

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconolast...

You see, the problem is that you are a classic calvinist.

Generally speaking, most well indoctrinated calivinists seem to, many times, have a somewhat arrogant, smug, haughty attitude concerning thier theological system.

*WE have all the answers
*WE have everything figured out accuratly
*WE have the true gosple (you guys actually say ridiculous things like "calvinism is the gosple"

*Our theological system is so much better than Arminianism.

When the TRUTH is that there are good truths in calvinism...along with some falsehood.

Just like there is some good truth in non/cal theology...along with some falsehood.

But the horrible elitism that is so apparent in the calvinist camp is something that you guys HAVE to get rid of. It is a detriment. It is not good at all.

God bless.

The only problem i see is you calling me names,because you cannot reply to the scripture...then trying to claim equivalence of two opposite views.
So I or other calvinists must be the problem.
try to post something that is helpful

 

[Alive in Christ]

The only problem i see is you calling me names,because you cannot reply to the scripture...then trying to claim equivalence of two opposite views.
So I or other calvinists must be the problem.
try to post something that is helpful

When did I call you names, Iconoclast?

This is what I said....

Generally speaking, most well indoctrinated calivinists seem to, many times, have a somewhat arrogant, smug, haughty attitude concerning thier theological system.

I never named you at all. I referred to...

most well indoctrinated calivinists

And others have noticed the same tendancy in some calvinists.

Iconoclast, people in general get a much better chance of getting a fair hearing from their hearers, when they come across with humility, rather than cold arrogance.

And Christ said some things about those 2 attitudes as well.