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Do The SDA See Ellen White As Modern Prophetess Then?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
You are allowed (for now) to feel that way.
There's no "allowing" to it. Truth is TRUTH, & the truth is, she was no more a prophetess than I am Batman.
Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
Attachments
Hobie
Well-Known Member
Was Martin Luther a man led by God, we must be careful as we may find ourselves fighting against truth because of preconceived ideas or against God because we don't agree with who He has that much like Job are good and upright.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
What comes to mind is captain obvious.
As pointed out, quite obviously, there can be no prophet nor prophetess until the Holy Spirit is removed from the world. If a human themselves make such a claim, they can only be empowered by the god of this world, Satan. If EW, claims that Jesus took away the kingdom from Satan, on the cross, would be proof, Satan was using her like Eve, to spread that lie. Read Revelation 11:15
"The seventh angel sounded his shofar; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,
“The kingdom of the world
has become the Kingdom
of our Lord and his Messiah,
and he will rule forever and ever!”
EW, just stating the obvious does not make her a prophetess. Obviously all she said was not always the Truth. If her followers make claims to that effect, they are wrong. Making her teachings culture is not sin, any more than it is human. Being self righteous, is only wearing filthy rags, but so is wearing a suit and tie to church.
As pointed out, quite obviously, there can be no prophet nor prophetess until the Holy Spirit is removed from the world. If a human themselves make such a claim, they can only be empowered by the god of this world, Satan. If EW, claims that Jesus took away the kingdom from Satan, on the cross, would be proof, Satan was using her like Eve, to spread that lie. Read Revelation 11:15
"The seventh angel sounded his shofar; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,
“The kingdom of the world
has become the Kingdom
of our Lord and his Messiah,
and he will rule forever and ever!”
EW, just stating the obvious does not make her a prophetess. Obviously all she said was not always the Truth. If her followers make claims to that effect, they are wrong. Making her teachings culture is not sin, any more than it is human. Being self righteous, is only wearing filthy rags, but so is wearing a suit and tie to church.
The Holy Spirit did NOT speak to EW, as many of her teachings did not come from the Bible!
Yes, and His bible was the OT cannon, and he wrote much of the NT canon, as he had what EW did not, divine inspiration!
I have the Holy Spirit to help me understand the Bible that he inspired, and trust His revealings FAR MORE than ones EW got!
What is supreme irony is that she will be experiencing eternal Hell, despite her objections to it!
Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
In the parable Jesus was speaking to some Pharisees while dining with them, Jesus said the following:
Luk 14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.
When is the recompense of the blessed and just?
Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Now, the sinner (those of damnation), likewise, when?:
Pro_11:31 Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner.
Joh_5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Act_24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
Rev 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. ..."
Joh_5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Act_24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
Rev 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. ..."
Luther and Calvin NEVER claimed to the infallible and inspired interpreter of the bible!
EW right now is alive and finding out that the God she spoke to was not the true One!
Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
Where in all of sister White's writing, did she ever say, teach such a thing of herself either?
Interpreter of Scripture (God, or Ellen?), Ellen says:
"... All should feel the importance of the scheme of educating the youth to understand the Scriptures. Let the work be taken hold of in the very simplicity of the truth itself. Lead the minds of the youth from truth to truth, up higher and higher, showing them how scripture interprets scripture, one passage being the key to other passages. Thus the Scripture itself will be the educating power, holding the thoughts in captivity to Christ.--Letter 27a, 1892. {Ev 581.1} ..."
Infallibility (God):
Manuscript 38, 1887, par. 1 -
“... God is infallible. God has spoken by Solomon that He "requireth that which is past" (Ecclesiastes 3:15). He "seeks again" that which is past (marginal reading). The body of Huss was consumed. The council had done all that they could do with the man whose only crime was that he could not accept as infallible the council of Constance and he could not let their voice stand above the voice of God in His Word. ...”
See also:
[1] Manuscript Releases, Volume 9 (1990) [Nos. 664-770], MR No. 741 - The Witness Of John Huss, page 275.1
[2] Christ Triumphant (1999), Chapter 11 - The Future Revealed In The Book Of Revelation, page 325.2
See also:
[1] Manuscript Releases, Volume 9 (1990) [Nos. 664-770], MR No. 741 - The Witness Of John Huss, page 275.1
[2] Christ Triumphant (1999), Chapter 11 - The Future Revealed In The Book Of Revelation, page 325.2
The Review And Herald, December 15, 1885, Art. A, par. 16 -
“... When God's word is studied, comprehended, and obeyed, a bright light will be reflected to the world; new truths, received and acted upon, will bind us in strong bonds to Jesus. The Bible, and the Bible alone, is to be our creed, the sole bond of union; all who bow to this holy word will be in harmony. Our own views and ideas must not control our efforts. Man is fallible, but God's word is infallible. Instead of wrangling with one another, let men exalt the Lord. Let us meet all opposition as did our Master, saying, "It is written." Let us lift up the banner on which is inscribed, The Bible our rule of faith and discipline. ...”
See also:
See also:
[1] Selected Message Book 1 (1958), Chapter 65 - How To Meet A Controverted Point Of Doctrine [Morning Talk At Battle Creek, Michigan, January 29, 1890], page 416.2
The Review And Herald, February 6, 1900, Art. A, par. 3 -
“... Man's word fails; and he who takes the assertions of men his dependence, may well tremble; for he will one day be as a shipwrecked vessel. But God's word is infallible, and endures forever. Christ declares, "Verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." God's word will endure throughout the ceaseless ages of eternity. ...”
See also:
See also:
[1] The Youth Instructor, December 1, 1903, par. 3, Lessons From The Life Of Daniel - XVI God's Prophetic Word
[2] The Upward Look (1982), Chapter 82 - God, The Revealer Of Secrets, page 96.5
[3] Christ Triumphant (1999), Chapter 11 - The Future Revealed In The Book Of Revelation, page 327.4
[2] The Upward Look (1982), Chapter 82 - God, The Revealer Of Secrets, page 96.5
[3] Christ Triumphant (1999), Chapter 11 - The Future Revealed In The Book Of Revelation, page 327.4
The Review And Herald, July 26, 1892, par. 7 - Search The Scriptures - By Mrs. E. G. White
“... We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed. As long as we hold to our own ideas and opinions with determined persistency, we cannot have the unity for which Christ prayed. {RH, July 26, 1892 par. 7} ...”
See also:
See also:
[1] Christian Experience And Teachings Of Ellen G. White (1922) Chapter 33: Organization And Development, page 203.2
[2] Testimonies To Ministers And Gospel Workers (1923), Chapter 1 - The Church Of Christ, page 30.2
[3] Counsels To Writers And Editors (1946), Chapter 4, Attitude To New Light, page 37.1
[4] Selected Messages Book 1 (1958), Chapter 2, Ellen G. White And Her Writings - A Letter To Dr. Paulson, St. Helena, California, June 14, 1906, page 37.3 - 37.4
[5] The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials (1987), Chapter 121 - Search The Scriptures - By Mrs. E. G. White, page 991.7
[2] Testimonies To Ministers And Gospel Workers (1923), Chapter 1 - The Church Of Christ, page 30.2
[3] Counsels To Writers And Editors (1946), Chapter 4, Attitude To New Light, page 37.1
[4] Selected Messages Book 1 (1958), Chapter 2, Ellen G. White And Her Writings - A Letter To Dr. Paulson, St. Helena, California, June 14, 1906, page 37.3 - 37.4
[5] The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials (1987), Chapter 121 - Search The Scriptures - By Mrs. E. G. White, page 991.7
Letter 10, June 9, 1895, par. 6 -
“... God help you, my dear nephew, to make deep and thorough work, that you may have a living connection with God, and then you can have a safe connection with men who are only fallible like yourself. In regard to infallibility, I never claimed it; God alone is infallible. His word is true, and in him is no variableness, or shadow of turning. {1888 1393.2} ...”
See also:
See also:
[1] Selected Messages Book 1 (1958), Chapter 2, Ellen G. White And Her Writings - A Letter To Dr. Paulson, St. Helena, California, June 14, 1906, page 37.4
[2] The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials (1987), Chapter 165 - To F. E. Belden, page 1393.2
[2] The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials (1987), Chapter 165 - To F. E. Belden, page 1393.2
Infallibility (men, sister White):
Letter 27, May 16, 1876, par. 3 -
“... I wish that self should be hid in Jesus. I wish self to be crucified. I do not claim infallibility, or even perfection of Christian character. I am not free from mistakes and errors in my life. Had I followed my Saviour more closely, I should not have to mourn so much my unlikeness to His dear image. ...”
See also:
See also:
[1] Ellen G. White: The Lonely Years: 1876-1891 (Volume 3), page 34.5 (Arthur L. White) (1984)
[2] Ellen G. White: The Progressive Years: 1862-1876 (Volume 2), page 444.6 (Arthur L. White) (1986)
[3] 7MR - Manuscripts Releases Volume Seven [Nos. 419-525] (1990), MR No. 483 - The Spirit Of 1876 A Presentation On Ellen White Geared To The Bicentennial By R. W. Olson
[4] 20MR - Manuscripts Releases Volume Twenty [Nos. 1420-1500] (1993), MR No. 1426 - Ellen White Acknowledges Her Imperfection, page 23.3
[5] Daughters Of God (1998), Letters (Written May 10, 12, 16, and 17, 1876), page 272.6
[2] Ellen G. White: The Progressive Years: 1862-1876 (Volume 2), page 444.6 (Arthur L. White) (1986)
[3] 7MR - Manuscripts Releases Volume Seven [Nos. 419-525] (1990), MR No. 483 - The Spirit Of 1876 A Presentation On Ellen White Geared To The Bicentennial By R. W. Olson
[4] 20MR - Manuscripts Releases Volume Twenty [Nos. 1420-1500] (1993), MR No. 1426 - Ellen White Acknowledges Her Imperfection, page 23.3
[5] Daughters Of God (1998), Letters (Written May 10, 12, 16, and 17, 1876), page 272.6
Letter 10, June 9, 1895, par. 6 -
“... God help you, my dear nephew, to make deep and thorough work, that you may have a living connection with God, and then you can have a safe connection with men who are only fallible like yourself. In regard to infallibility, I never claimed it; God alone is infallible. His word is true, and in him is no variableness, or shadow of turning. {1888 1393.2} ...”
See also:
Much more may be cited, when you desire to hear it.See also:
[1] Selected Messages Book 1 (1958), Chapter 2, Ellen G. White And Her Writings - A Letter To Dr. Paulson, St. Helena, California, June 14, 1906, page 37.4
[2] The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials (1987), Chapter 165 - To F. E. Belden, page 1393.2
[2] The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials (1987), Chapter 165 - To F. E. Belden, page 1393.2
Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
O ~ I know she is alive, as Jesus said so:
Joh_11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Jesus said she sleeps in the earth until her respective resurrection:
Mat_9:24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.
Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
Was the Holy Spirit speaking to sister White when she was a Methodist?
EGW didn't believe in eternal hell, as Scripture sets forth.
She wrote that Jesus is the archangel Michael.
She invented something called "Investigative Judgment", which is NOT found in Scripture.
She made & changed several prophecies for "the end".
That's a FEW of her false views & writings.
When she was age 9, another child hit her in the head with a rock, putting her in a coma for many days. Only after she recovered did she start having "revelations". Her injury mighta been the source of her stuff.
But at any rate, she was a false teacher/prophetess, as proven by her failed prophecies & her contradictions of Scripture.
She wrote that Jesus is the archangel Michael.
She invented something called "Investigative Judgment", which is NOT found in Scripture.
She made & changed several prophecies for "the end".
That's a FEW of her false views & writings.
When she was age 9, another child hit her in the head with a rock, putting her in a coma for many days. Only after she recovered did she start having "revelations". Her injury mighta been the source of her stuff.
But at any rate, she was a false teacher/prophetess, as proven by her failed prophecies & her contradictions of Scripture.
Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
Seventh-day Adventists, including sister White, do not teach "eternal torment" as it is not found in scripture. As for "hell", see:
Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Yep.
You might want to reconsider the history surrounding the doctrine before saying such things.
Please see:
SDA: Cult of Fear-Mongers
Really? Where? Please provide the citations from the official Ellen G White materials, thank you.
Well, I see plenty of assertions, but no corroborating evidences.
Ellen G White was born on November 26, 1827, which if we move forward 9 years, would be 1836-1837. Ellen G White's first vision, was not until December 1844 - Ellen G. White - Wikipedia which would be another 7 years later, around the age of 16 (she was 12 in 1840).
How do you explain the events that took place while in vision, the supernatural strength, the ability to talk without breathing, move full grown men trying to restrain her, eyes open without blinking when tested by candle, and spiritualists fleeing from her and so on? (several documented examples may be provided in each case) How do you explain the voluminous materials written and the subject matter, such as Desire of Ages over a period of many years, from 1844 unto her death in 1915? Many people stayed with the Whites at their various homes over the years, can you point to any testimony that say she was imbecile?
You do realize that when Paul was on the road to Damascus and came into contact with the glorified Jesus, he fell to the earth (Acts 9:4, 22:7, 26:14), and became blinded and it was after that that he had visions and revelations (2 Corinthians 12:1,7)?.
Really? That is quite an imaginary medical condition ~ one for the DSM 1-5 perhaps? What label scientifically would you call it, what is the classification? Then we can test if such criteria is met by all of the documented historical evidence and testimony.
Are you willing to put your 'batman theory' to the test publicly? Or is 'batman' simply throwing smoke grenades?
Well, you sure do like to cite 'you' as the basis for your accusations. However, I like to have documented evidences, rather than subjective apriori.
Failed prophecies? Can you be specific and cite directly for us such a single example to examine before all? That would be interesting. I am willing to openly test sister White.
Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
I was still hoping for an answer to this question.
She claimed that God Himself gave to her the visions and dictated her words, as she was just as inspired as any OT prophet, and that if one went against her teachings, going against God Himself!