Do the "un-elect" know this about themselves?

[StefanM]

. And is so easily refuted by Scripture I am at a loss where to begin.

I agree. The only real non-Calvinist alternative is corporate election, which is a bit more stable, but it still boils down to man choosing himself on an individual level.

FTR, I was not personally endorsing that theology. I was simply offering it as the primary example of the Arminian position.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I agree. The only real non-Calvinist alternative is corporate election, which is a bit more stable, but it still boils down to man choosing himself on an individual level.

FTR, I was not personally endorsing that theology. I was simply offering it as the primary example of the Arminian position.

Thanks for clarifying. I thought you were endorsing it at my first read, but then re-read it and realized your were stating the Arminian position. :laugh: But that's why I deal with theology and not people!

 

[jcjordan]

Oh please tell me that was sarcasm. raying:

of course:thumbs:

 

[lbaker]

If a person wanted to trust Christ, then they would be one of the elect. There's no such thing as a member of the unelect who wants to be saved, but God says "No, you're not one of my elect".

Are you sure? Can you prove this?

 

[StefanM]

Are you sure? Can you prove this?

You can't "prove" anything in regards to this. It's all a matter of interpretation.

The classic position, however, is that a sinful person will not desire to repent and to trust in Christ because it is against his nature. The only possible way for that individual to do so is for God to supernaturally intervene. Those for whom God has chosen to intervene are called the elect. These will be saved because God gives them the desire to trust in Christ. Those who have not been chosen will not trust in Christ just as an elephant will not fly--it is not in accordance with their nature.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Are you sure? Can you prove this?

Ya.

Isaiah 55
1Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

2Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.

3Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

1 Thess 1
3Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

4Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.


1. The call goes out to all.
2. The elect are the ones who come.

 

[webdog]

Jesus is referred to as God's elect. Those in Christ are likewise.

 

[lbaker]

So, if only the elect can have any interest in Christianity does that mean that everyone who professes Christianity is saved?

 

[ReformedBaptist]

So, if only the elect can have any interest in Christianity does that mean that everyone who professes Christianity is saved?

Why do you ask questions for which you have already answered for yourself?

 

[StefanM]

So, if only the elect can have any interest in Christianity does that mean that everyone who professes Christianity is saved?

Not interest in "Christianity." There are many who pursue religion for a variety of reasons who do not know the Savior.

 

[Rippon]

So, if only the elect can have any interest in Christianity does that mean that everyone who professes Christianity is saved?

Profession doesn't necessarily = possession.

 

[StefanM]

Succinctly put, Rippon.

 

[lbaker]

Okay, I see a major contradiction here. According to what y'all are saying a person can't even care about being saved, or be interested in spiritual matters, unless they are one of the elect. Now you're saying that not everyone who professes Christ belongs to Christ. Obviously if they are professing Christ they have an interest in being saved and in spiritual things. That is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about with people who think they belong to Jesus but don't only because they aren't elect.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Okay, I see a major contradiction here. According to what y'all are saying a person can't even care about being saved, or be interested in spiritual matters, unless they are one of the elect. Now you're saying that not everyone who professes Christ belongs to Christ. Obviously if they are professing Christ they have an interest in being saved and in spiritual things. That is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about with people who think they belong to Jesus but don't only because they aren't elect.

So why are you asking questions?

 

[StefanM]

Okay, I see a major contradiction here. According to what y'all are saying a person can't even care about being saved, or be interested in spiritual matters, unless they are one of the elect. Now you're saying that not everyone who professes Christ belongs to Christ. Obviously if they are professing Christ they have an interest in being saved and in spiritual things. That is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about with people who think they belong to Jesus but don't only because they aren't elect.

A lot of people want to be saved on their own terms. Only the elect are willing to be saved on God's terms.

 

[lbaker]

But I thought what we did or believed didn't matter and that it is all up to God to decide?

 

[lbaker]

So why are you asking questions?

To find out how people think.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

To find out how people think.

I see. :sleeping_2:

 

[StefanM]

But I thought what we did or believed didn't matter and that it is all up to God to decide?

What we believe is very important. However, we will not trust in Christ without God's election.

 

[lbaker]

What we believe is very important. However, we will not trust in Christ without God's election.

But, apparently the un-elect can fool themselves into thinking they have trusted in Christ? Thus the churches full of unelected unsaved folks who think they are elect and saved?