Do We baptists teach Enough On person And Role Of The Holy Spirit For Today?

[JesusFan]

Realise that He will not speak of Himself, reveals Jesus unto us today..

BUT

Do we place enough emphahsis on Him as being the ONLY source of our power to live for God?
As the One who enables us to pray in power to God, whose "Job" is to convict us, and cause us to repent and get empower again by God?

Do we have mighty theology, big programs, but feeble flesh empowered Churces, as He sorta sits in when we ask?

 

[Tom Butler]

Since you've opened the subject, I'll throw in a question or two to stimulate some discussion.

What do we mean by the following:
Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Baptism with the Holy Spirit
Baptism in the Holy Spirit
Baptism by the Holy Spirit (or can I Cor 12:13 be translated "in one Spirit"?)
Being filled with the Spirit
Being indwelt by the Spirit

What is the role of the Holy Spirit in salvation?
In regeneration?
In illuminating the mind?
In renewing the mind?
In convicting of sin?

Release the hounds!

 

[freeatlast]

Realise that He will not speak of Himself, reveals Jesus unto us today..

BUT

Do we place enough emphahsis on Him as being the ONLY source of our power to live for God?
As the One who enables us to pray in power to God, whose "Job" is to convict us, and cause us to repent and get empower again by God?

Do we have mighty theology, big programs, but feeble flesh empowered Churces, as He sorta sits in when we ask?

Answering the OP title: I think so. If we were suppose to promote the Spirit then I think there would be sufficient scripture making that clear. He is the promoter of Christ and we do not have to call on Him to get Him to work. All we are to do is surrender to His workings. In fact I am convinced that those who pray to Him are in sin since scripture tells us how to pray and it never says to pay to the Spirit. So if we do it our way I think we are in sin. In fact I know of no single passage where anyone ever called on the Spirit to do anything and to do so in my opinion is sin. They did call on God to use the Spirit, but no one called on the Spirit Himself and to do so is sin. I believe even praising Him is improper as I know of no passage where it was done.
I think we need to know who He is and what He does and that this is a person who is God not an it, but nothing more as nothing more is given about Him.

 

[glfredrick]

DHK on another thread was adamant that the spiritual gifts have ceased. Wonder if he thinks that the Holy Spirit has changed along with the cessation of gifts?

One thing that I've seen in many churches is that the Holy Spirit is invoked, spoken about, taught, etc., but that local body thinks that they are the only ones doing so!

 

[JesusFan]

Since you've opened the subject, I'll throw in a question or two to stimulate some discussion.

What do we mean by the following:
Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Baptism with the Holy Spirit
Baptism in the Holy Spirit
Baptism by the Holy Spirit (or can I Cor 12:13 be translated "in one Spirit"?)
Being filled with the Spirit
Being indwelt by the Spirit

What is the role of the Holy Spirit in salvation?
In regeneration?
In illuminating the mind?
In renewing the mind?
In convicting of sin?

Release the hounds!

Think that from the biblical view, ALL of us at time of conversion are "spirit baptised" by HS into Body of Christ, that at that Moment each of us will have spiritual Gifts as He choses to distribute them among us...

that we are all indwelt and sealed by HS, BUT each odfus need to makea choice to receive his enabling power to live for god, by being Infilled daily basis...

HS convicts sinners to their need of Chrsit, and to those whom God has elected unto salvation, as many as those are, HS brings them to point where Gospel message actually can produce faith and salvation unto them!

 

[JesusFan]

Answering the OP title: I think so. If we were suppose to promote the Spirit then I think there would be sufficient scripture making that clear. He is the promoter of Christ and we do not have to call on Him to get Him to work. All we are to do is surrender to His workings. In fact I am convinced that those who pray to Him are in sin since scripture tells us how to pray and it never says to pay to the Spirit. So if we do it our way I think we are in sin. In fact I know of no single passage where anyone ever called on the Spirit to do anything and to do so in my opinion is sin. They did call on God to use the Spirit, but no one called on the Spirit Himself and to do so is sin. I believe even praising Him is improper as I know of no passage where it was done.
I think we need to know who He is and what He does and that this is a person who is God not an it, but nothing more as nothing more is given about Him.

We must than be preaching and teaching on a 'different" Holy spirit though in our Churches, as there does not seem to a lot of "powerful and abundant " living for thre Lord going on today, much power to live for Jesus and to be active in witnes etc!

just wondering if we could get back passion and the spiritual power NT Church had, and that has "shown up" in churches through time, especially while in midst of revivals!

 

[JesusFan]

DHK on another thread was adamant that the spiritual gifts have ceased. Wonder if he thinks that the Holy Spirit has changed along with the cessation of gifts?

One thing that I've seen in many churches is that the Holy Spirit is invoked, spoken about, taught, etc., but that local body thinks that they are the only ones doing so!

Seems that some here hold that ALL we need iss the Bible and the Gospel ONLY,as that is the power of God unto salvation...

Can there be though ANY fruitful works done on behalf of God apart from being done by the HS in and through us?

 

[freeatlast]

We must than be preaching and teaching on a 'different" Holy spirit though in our Churches, as there does not seem to a lot of "powerful and abundant " living for thre Lord going on today, much power to live for Jesus and to be active in witnes etc!

just wondering if we could get back passion and the spiritual power NT Church had, and that has "shown up" in churches through time, especially while in midst of revivals!

I am not sure what you are asking, but if you mean teaching about the Holy Spirit brings revival I would say no. Some call emotionalism revivals and they are just that with no lasting change. Preaching about sin and repentance brings revivals. Jesus is the One who needs to be taught not the Holy Spirit.

 

[freeatlast]

Seems that some here hold that ALL we need iss the Bible and the Gospel ONLY,as that is the power of God unto salvation...

Can there be though ANY fruitful works done on behalf of God apart from being done by the HS in and through us?

Show us any message in the NT that suggests we are to preach, pray to or seek the Holy Spirit. It does teach we are to surrender or walk in the the Spirit but no suggestion that teach, pray or seek Him. It is all about Jesus and any deviation from that would be sin.

 

[JesusFan]

Show us any message in the NT that suggests we are to preach, pray to or seek the Holy Spirit. It does teach we are to surrender or walk in the the Spirit but no suggestion that teach, pray or seek Him. It is all about Jesus and any deviation from that would be sin.

Misunderstood me!

We need to exault the Lord jesus, bot the One given to us by God is in the person of HS and His power!

We do need to teach again in our circles that the HS is ONLY source of illumination and empowering to live for jesus available to us today...

How often dowe teach/preach on the person of HS His gifts and His purpose and power among the saints?

 

[glfredrick]

Seems that some here hold that ALL we need iss the Bible and the Gospel ONLY,as that is the power of God unto salvation...

Can there be though ANY fruitful works done on behalf of God apart from being done by the HS in and through us?

Agree... We can do nothing apart from the Holy Spirit that seals and indwells us with Christ, Himself, regarding ministry, nor is the Word of God powerful itself apart from the work of the Holy Spirit. The Bible is not some sort of Christian talisman or magical incantation, it is the living Word of the Living God and that by the Living Holy Spirit.

 

[freeatlast]

Misunderstood me!

We need to exault the Lord jesus, bot the One given to us by God is in the person of HS and His power!

We do need to teach again in our circles that the HS is ONLY source of illumination and empowering to live for jesus available to us today...

How often dowe teach/preach on the person of HS His gifts and His purpose and power among the saints?

I don't think we preach on the Holy spirit very much, but I think that is appropriate as we are never taught in scripture to seek after Him only submit or walk in Him. I think it good to understand the trinity and how they work, at least with what information we have, but the focus must be on the Lord Jesus. I don't think we would have any closer walk with the Lord if the Spirit was preached. I think repentance and holiness with law needs to be preached with explanation so as not to lose sight of the spirit of the law and fall into legalism.

 

[glfredrick]

Show us any message in the NT that suggests we are to preach, pray to or seek the Holy Spirit. It does teach we are to surrender or walk in the the Spirit but no suggestion that teach, pray or seek Him. It is all about Jesus and any deviation from that would be sin.

Two of the most powerful verses of warning in the entire NT concern our actions regarding the Holy Spirit.

While I believe you are correct, in that we ought take heed as to how we pray, teach, preach, etc., Jesus Himself had much to say in His own teaching concerning the Holy Spirit, as does the rest of the NT, and portions of the OT. We ignore teaching and preaching on those subjects to our peril.

Mark 3:22-30 (NKJV) "And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, 'He has Beelzebub,' and, 'By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.' …'Assuredly, I [Jesus] say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation;' because they said, 'He has an unclean spirit'"

Matthew 12:31-32 (NKJV) "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come"

 

[freeatlast]

Two of the most powerful verses of warning in the entire NT concern our actions regarding the Holy Spirit.

While I believe you are correct, in that we ought take heed as to how we pray, teach, preach, etc., Jesus Himself had much to say in His own teaching concerning the Holy Spirit, as does the rest of the NT, and portions of the OT. We ignore teaching and preaching on those subjects to our peril.

Mark 3:22-30 (NKJV) "And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, 'He has Beelzebub,' and, 'By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.' …'Assuredly, I [Jesus] say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation;' because they said, 'He has an unclean spirit'"

Matthew 12:31-32 (NKJV) "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come"

I am not suggesting no teaching on the Spirit as that would be incorrect. I think those passages would fall under explaining the workings of the trinity, their differences and such, but I would point out that a Christian cannot blaspheme the Spirit. Only the lost can do that so I would not hammer on warning the church about that..

 

[JesusFan]

Agree... We can do nothing apart from the Holy Spirit that seals and indwells us with Christ, Himself, regarding ministry, nor is the Word of God powerful itself apart from the work of the Holy Spirit. The Bible is not some sort of Christian talisman or magical incantation, it is the living Word of the Living God and that by the Living Holy Spirit.

just think that we baptists at times over react to the 'excesses" seen in modern pentacostal/Charasmatic movements, so we tend to go to other extreme, that we teach/preach the Bible, but fail to have HS empowered paise and worship, and seem to be "scared" to even teach on the hS and His gifts and functioning within Body of Christ!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

DHK on another thread was adamant that the spiritual gifts have ceased. Wonder if he thinks that the Holy Spirit has changed along with the cessation of gifts?

One thing that I've seen in many churches is that the Holy Spirit is invoked, spoken about, taught, etc., but that local body thinks that they are the only ones doing so!

Yea like when.....Tom Baker will testify he's been in a church where the HS filled it, Others have also told me like stories & what about the experiences of Wesly, Whitefield, Lloyd-Jones, Edwards, Moody etc how bout the Welsh Revivals.....so from my prospective this is not some forbidden doctrine. This is New Testament Christianity.

 

[JesusFan]

Yea like when.....Tom Baker will testify he's been in a church where the HS filled it, Others have also told me like stories & what about the experiences of Wesly, Whitefield, Lloyd-Jones, Edwards, Moody etc how bout the Welsh Revivals.....so from my prospective this is not some forbidden doctrine. This is New Testament Christianity.

When the Holy spirit 'allowed' to do His work in the Church...

Lives get transformed, sinners become saints, not saying "have " to have the Spiritual Gifts operating, but He can do as He so chooses, If we would just allow Him to...

just seems that we today are "missing" the praise, joy, power to live and witness that earlier Christians experienced!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

When the Holy spirit 'allowed' to do His work in the Church...

Lives get transformed, sinners become saints, not saying "have " to have the Spiritual Gifts operating, but He can do as He so chooses, If we would just allow Him to...

just seems that we today are "missing" the praise, joy, power to live and witness that earlier Christians experienced!

Thats because we suppressed it. (1 Thessalonians 5: 19-21 " Quench not the Spirit...) There is nothing in the NT which says that it was not so limited. The history of revivals prove that. what is there about today that makes it different or exceptional? There is nothing. God is the same, the power of the spirit is the same, our needs are the same. Put all these things together JF.... So if your asking yourself, "Should I seek it?" Of course you should!

 

[JesusFan]

Thats because we suppressed it. (1 Thessalonians 5: 19-21 " Quench not the Spirit...) There is nothing in the NT which says that it was not so limited. The history of revivals prove that. what is there about today that makes it different or exceptional? There is nothing. God is the same, the power of the spirit is the same, our needs are the same. Put all these things together JF.... So if your asking yourself, "Should I seek it?" Of course you should!

Ironic thing here is that II am already a "baptacostal" Christian, was addressing the situation from the view that would apply to ALL Baptists...

Taking out of this equation IF Gifts operate still today or have ceased...

Still seems like we as a whole are not having those moves of the Spirit to see sinners saved, preaching strong, and live transforming as wes hould be, at least per the Bible!

 

[glfredrick]

When the Holy spirit 'allowed' to do His work in the Church...

Lives get transformed, sinners become saints, not saying "have " to have the Spiritual Gifts operating, but He can do as He so chooses, If we would just allow Him to...

just seems that we today are "missing" the praise, joy, power to live and witness that earlier Christians experienced!

You seem to indicate that we can somehow disallow the Holy Spirit His work. That is akin to saying that God has no power. I'm not very comfortable with that concept. In fact, I'm running!

5 Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again. 8 The wind blows where it pleases, and you hear its sound, but you don’t know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
John 3:5-8 (HCSB)

Can we stop the wind from blowing? We might build a wall, which will halt the effects of the wind, but it still blows!