Do We Bow Down Enough in Church?

[Mark Corbett]

Do we bow down enough in church services?

The meaning of the Greek word most commonly translated "worship" (proskuneo) is :

worship or veneration of a divine or supposedly divine object, expressed concretely with falling face down in front of someone (Friberg Lexicon)​

This meaning is very clear in many of the uses of the word "worship" (proskuneo) in the Bible. For example:

NIV 1 Corinthians 14:25b So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"

NIV Revelation 11:16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God,

I feel that many of our Baptist churches (including the one where I serve) may be missing something because we rarely have settings where we physically bow down before God. Of course, our heart attitude is far more important than our physical position. Still, is there something about the physical position of bowing on the floor which helps us feel and show our relationship to God? Does it more clearly show our submission to God? What do you think?

(Thanks to BaptistBoard member “John of Japan” for pointing out the meaning of proskuneo to me.)

 

[InTheLight]

I've gotten down on my knees several times during private prayer time. I think it does clearly show our submission to God. It certainly is humbling.

There are times we are instructed to get down on our knees during worship service at our church. Just kneel on the floor in front of our seat. I don't know about that practice, though. I do it, but it seems kind of "showy" or forced to me. I've got to believe not everyone in the service is in the proper frame of mind to kneel as a congregation. When this has happened there have been times where I've unhesitantly knelt in reverence and other times where I thought I was being compelled to do it because others were doing it also.

 

[Mark Corbett]

I've gotten down on my knees several times during private prayer time. I think it does clearly show our submission to God. It certainly is humbling.

There are times we are instructed to get down on our knees during worship service at our church. Just kneel on the floor in front of our seat. I don't know about that practice, though. I do it, but it seems kind of "showy" or forced to me. I've got to believe not everyone in the service is in the proper frame of mind to kneel as a congregation. When this has happened there have been times where I've unhesitantly knelt in reverence and other times where I thought I was being compelled to do it because others were doing it also.

You bring up some great points.

I too, feel that kneeling in private prayer is often helpful.

Also, the heart attitude is certainly more important than the body position. Still, I suspect that some of the discomfort/hesitation of kneeling in public worship comes from the fact that we don't do it very often.

 

[Mark Corbett]

Paul wrote:

ESV Ephesians 3:14 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,

Is physically bowing our knees part of Paul's example that we should be following? I think it is for those who are physically able to do so. Those who have knees or backs which are physically difficult to bow can follow this command be reverently bowing their heads. But I think that for most of us physically kneeling has some value. Or else, why did Paul emphasize it? He could have just said, "For this reason I pray to the Father . . .".

 

[JonC]

Paul wrote:

ESV Ephesians 3:14 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,

Is physically bowing our knees part of Paul's example that we should be following? I think it is for those who are physically able to do so. Those who have knees or backs which are physically difficult to bow can follow this command be reverently bowing their heads. But I think that for most of us physically kneeling has some value. Or else, why did Paul emphasize it? He could have just said, "For this reason I pray to the Father . . .".

I do not know that the physical act itself is what gives this bowing significance. Perhaps instead the significance is along the lines of humility and submission to God. The reason I suggest this is that it is along the lines of Christ's example (as His life itself was an act of obedience, humility, and submission to the Father). If this is the case, then the act of bowing the knee is a representation of this submission (which is the important part).

That said, I can think of no other act in our church that would drive home this submission than bowing the knee.

 

[Mark Corbett]

Yes, it is the heart attitude of submission to God which is most important. Some of our most godly saints are not even physically able to kneel and bow. Yet, for those who are able, the heart attitude should result in a glad willingness and even desire to kneel and bow. And I agree wholeheartedly with what you said:

That said, I can think of no other act in our church that would drive home this submission than bowing the knee.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Yes, it is the heart attitude of submission to God which is most important

Exactly so. 1 Samuel 16:7. 'For the LORD does not see as man sees: man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks upon the heart.'
2 Samuel 7:18. 'Then King David went in and sat before the LORD and said, "Who am I, O Lord GOD, and what is my house, that You have brought me thus far?"'

 

[Mark Corbett]

Exactly so. 1 Samuel 16:7. 'For the LORD does not see as man sees: man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks upon the heart.'

The attitude of the heart is most important, yet there is a danger of misusing this truth. Our heart attitudes should always be reflected in our actions. And I think, based on the many examples of people bowing to God all throughout the Bible, that a heart attitude of submission to God should result in us physically bowing to Him.

Also, our actions do influence our hearts.

I read the Bible (an action) because I value God's Word (a heart attitued).

But it is also true that the more I read the Bible the more I value God's Word. So our actions are both caused by and also influence our heart attitudes.

Perhaps if we physically bowed more often then our hearts would become more submissive to God, just like reading the Bible more often causes our hearts to value God's Word more. It seems to me that it works that way. What do you think?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

What do you think?

I don't think the Bible mandates a posture, and I certainly don't think that it should be suggested that people are not being holy enough because they don't adopt a certain physical position. David sat before the Lord as I wrote above; and on another occasion the congregation stood to worship the Lord, which involved prayers and Bible reading (Nehemiah 9:3-5).

If someone is moved to kneel before the Lord, that is fine, but he needs to be quite clear in his own heart what his motives are in doing so. I frequently pray and worship the Lord whilst out walking my dog.

Moslems adopt a 'kow-tow' position in their prayers, which certainly seems very devout. But then some of them get up and commit the most unspeakable crimes.

 

[Mark Corbett]

I frequently pray and worship the Lord whilst out walking my dog.

I also frequently pray and praise the Lord while walking my dog . I'm blessed to live in a location where I can walk through fields early in the morning where it is safe to let Sadie off her leash. Many times I feel God's presence on these walks and pray to Him and praise Him. Just this morning I took some picture of these flowers which grow wild where I walk:

 

[HankD]

Hmm, Wild Morning Glories?

HankD

 

[HankD]

Do we bow down enough in church services?

The meaning of the Greek word most commonly translated "worship" (proskuneo) is :

worship or veneration of a divine or supposedly divine object, expressed concretely with falling face down in front of someone (Friberg Lexicon)​

This meaning is very clear in many of the uses of the word "worship" (proskuneo) in the Bible. For example:

NIV 1 Corinthians 14:25b So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"

NIV Revelation 11:16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God,

I feel that many of our Baptist churches (including the one where I serve) may be missing something because we rarely have settings where we physically bow down before God. Of course, our heart attitude is far more important than our physical position. Still, is there something about the physical position of bowing on the floor which helps us feel and show our relationship to God? Does it more clearly show our submission to God? What do you think?

(Thanks to BaptistBoard member “John of Japan” for pointing out the meaning of proskuneo to me.)

No, I don't believe kneeling is required or even an expectation of God of practice under the New Covenant, though I have done this on my own and in deacon prayer events.

Speaking of which our church has a large contingency of senior citizens many of which could not kneel without a great deal of assistance. We have a section of the church pews especially arranged for walkers and even wheelchairs.

It is the heart not the knees of which God takes note.

Christ has ripped through the veil and we may come boldly to the throne of grace as the children of God not His indentured servants.

But yes, there is a time when we will bow the knee to Jesus Christ along with the totality of mankind some too late, some in agape love adoration.

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth.


HankD

 

[Mark Corbett]

Hmm, Wild Morning Glories?

HankD

Yes. And even better, a morning of seeing God's glory in the wild!

 

[HankD]

Yes. And even better, a morning of seeing God's glory in the wild!

Yes of course.

HankD

 

[Mark Corbett]

It is the heart not the knees of which God takes note.

HankD

True! Yet we do not have to choose between a submissive heart and knees that sometimes kneel to pray, worship, and praise. Like Peter, we can have both:

ESV Acts 9:40 But Peter put them all outside, and knelt down and prayed;

 

[Mark Corbett]

Hmm, Wild Morning Glories?

HankD

And thanks for letting me know what they are called. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to the names of flowers, plants, and trees, even though I appreciate their beauty.

 

[HankD]

And thanks for letting me know what they are called. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to the names of flowers, plants, and trees, even though I appreciate their beauty.

Yes Morning Glories are my favorites.

HankD

 

[HankD]

True! Yet we do not have to choose between a submissive heart and knees that sometimes kneel to pray, worship, and praise. Like Peter, we can have both:

ESV Acts 9:40 But Peter put them all outside, and knelt down and prayed;

Understood. The apostles, including Paul were in the transitory period between the age of law and the age of grace.

Kneeling in prayer was a standard practice for OT Hebrews but I don't see that as a requirement or being a standard practice of the New Covenant.

In my youth as a former Catholic it was definitely a standard practice so I am no stranger to praying on my knees and as I said previously still do it on occasion.

HankD

 

[Mark Corbett]

ESV Acts 20:36 And when he had said these things, he knelt down and prayed with them all.

ESV Acts 21:5 When our days there were ended, we departed and went on our journey, and they all, with wives and children, accompanied us until we were outside the city. And kneeling down on the beach, we prayed

I'm sure we all agree that praying together is the most important part of the example to follow from the passages above. But Paul must have thought that there was some value in kneeling together with others in prayer, at least on some occasions. Perhaps we should do so a little more often?

 

[HankD]

ESV Acts 20:36 And when he had said these things, he knelt down and prayed with them all.

ESV Acts 21:5 When our days there were ended, we departed and went on our journey, and they all, with wives and children, accompanied us until we were outside the city. And kneeling down on the beach, we prayed

I'm sure we all agree that praying together is the most important part of the example to follow from the passages above. But Paul must of thought that there was some value in kneeling together with others in prayer, at least on some occasions. Perhaps we should do so a little more often?

No problem.

But we do need to be careful that we don't end up "showing off" our piety.

HankD