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Do we really have free choice?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by reformedbeliever, Dec 21, 2006.

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  1. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    Ok guys. Lets stop with the attacks and get back to the OP. This is a very legit question for both sides of the argument. Don't close this down please.
     
    #41 reformedbeliever, Dec 21, 2006
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    1. I said no such thing about my wife.

    and

    2. The statements I did make were made in a private forum. You obviously have no honor to take something discussed in private and spread it out in public. Shame on you.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #42 Joseph_Botwinick, Dec 21, 2006
  3. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    According to you I had no choice about what I said. It was God's will. Therefore you should not insult me, but rather praise me for being so obedient.

    On the other hand, I guess what you said was predestined, too, so you cannot be held responsible for it.

    Yup, Calvinism purges everyone of any responsibility for what they say or do or believe. We are not even as good as the animals! They, at least, can be trained.
     
    #43 Helen, Dec 21, 2006
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    We are still held responsible for our actions and God is still holy and just.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #44 Joseph_Botwinick, Dec 21, 2006
  5. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Agreed. It's time for a group hug. :1_grouphug: .
     
    #45 LadyEagle, Dec 21, 2006
  6. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Ok, Joseph I owe you an apology. I didn't realize it was a private forum. I went and looked and sure enough it is. So, I ask your forgiveness.
     
    #46 Brother Bob, Dec 21, 2006
  7. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    Awww........ thanks Lady Eagle. I needed a hug. Now, do you have an answer for me?
     
    #47 reformedbeliever, Dec 21, 2006
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Forgiven.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #48 Joseph_Botwinick, Dec 21, 2006
  9. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Why are you responsible if it was predestinated of God? Please


    And Thanks
     
    #49 Brother Bob, Dec 21, 2006
  10. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    Because God said so.
     
    #50 reformedbeliever, Dec 21, 2006
  11. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Whoa! So God chooses what you will do, creates you to do it, and then holds you responsible for doing what He willed and created you to do.

    That is patently absurd nonsense and definitely NOT the God of the Bible.
     
    #51 Helen, Dec 21, 2006
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Romans 9:19-21

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #52 Joseph_Botwinick, Dec 21, 2006
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Really? Let's see what the Bible says:

    Romans 9:19-21

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #53 Joseph_Botwinick, Dec 21, 2006
  14. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Quote:
    19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "[a] 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

    Romans 9:19-21

    That has to do with station in life, not with salvation.
     
    #54 Helen, Dec 21, 2006
  15. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Let me make sure I got this right. God predestinated you to do something that needed purging and then holds you responsible?

    And all this takes place because God said so. {scratch head}
     
    #55 Brother Bob, Dec 21, 2006
  16. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    That's really good eisegesis, Helen. But it doesn't make sense in the context of the passage talking about the grace of God.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #56 Joseph_Botwinick, Dec 21, 2006
  17. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    That is scriptural. Thanks Joseph. Helen, lets try to keep emotions out of the debate so we can keep this open and possibly learn. Ok?
     
    #57 reformedbeliever, Dec 21, 2006
  18. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    Well...... first off your terminology is wrong Bob. Predestination is God's election for some to salvation and others to reprobation.
     
    #58 reformedbeliever, Dec 21, 2006
  19. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    I'm sorry, but my disgust at what Calvinists do to Scripture is not something that I can control. On the other hand, since God has ordained my responses, why should you be trying to correct me?
     
    #59 Helen, Dec 21, 2006
  20. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    If God ordained that we do something that needed purging, do you think maybe He was teaching us a lesson, or maybe it was simply so His glory could be made manifest?

    Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
     
    #60 reformedbeliever, Dec 21, 2006
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