Do we really have free choice?

Helen,

Do you remember earlier in the thread when you were eager to discuss the scripture? I notice that now you don't seem to be too eager for that. It seems that since you don't seem to have a good answer, you have resorted to personal attacks in hopes, I am guessing, of shutting down the thread. Or, perhaps, maybe even stalling till you can find the answer in one of your arminian commentaries in the stars. I don't know. I figure I will give you another chance though to deal with scripture again:

Which station in life is being referred to in verse 22:

Verse 22

Joseph Botwinick

 

I told you where it came from and it was my father at supper at night. He wasn't being mean either, it was his friends he spoke of and said it because they were calvinist and if it were predestinated then why did they run. It shows how your theology don't hold up in real life.

This is a false statement made by you. I didn't infer they left their buddies behind. I was telling the story as its been told to me many times but it was about if it were predestnated then why did they run? They were all friends and made the statements to each other. I made a mistake of thinking I could share it with you but you are too small in mind to understand something like that. I should of known better.

 

Either way, it is an unsubstantiated claim meant to mock these men's theology. Names and sources. Otherwise, you should not be passing this off as a true story.

Joseph Botwinick

 

You were mean too and did mock my family being blown up in a mine.

 

Here it is again, Helen:

Which station in life is being referred to in verse 22:

Verse 22

Joseph Botwinick

 

And I'm getting to be an old lady now, Bob, and I understand exactly what you are talking about. God bless you.

I'll deal with more tomorrow. We have a new dog arriving (this late at night) any moment now. He is a white lab, five months old, congenitally profoundly deaf and with one eye gone as his mother bit him when he was 12 hours old. He will need a bit of comfort and work. But then, that's another sob story, so I'll sign off for now.

Again, Brother Bob, God bless you and yours.

 

Helen,

If you need to go to sleep, I certainly understand. I will post it again for you. It will still be here for you tomorrow.:wavey:

Which station in life is being referred to in verse 22:

Verse 22

Joseph Botwinick

 

Goodnight Helen. Good luck with your dog

 

FIrst off, You guys need to Buck Up and Back Off.

Get back to scripture and let pettyness and charactor accusations drop.
I have sat back and watched this thread build and decided to add my nickle, IF I may??

You completely misunderstand what is ment by 'free choice'. You keep holding to the open theist veiw point of free choice. But when dealing with Baptist Non-Cals you are neither dealing with an Open Theist (at least I hope not) nor are you dealing with an Arminian but more 'like' a Centrist or one who stands on middle ground. What you 'think' is free choice is what "we" understand is our responsibility toward what we do with revealed truth.

I will address the embolden part of your text.
The fact God knows (and not foresees) how a man WILL choose IS apart of Gods soveriegnty and His decree for all thing to be was the bringing together of His knowledge, plan, purpose and pleasure into one - His Will. That which He knows is already apart of His plan that will order events to His pleasure and Will within the construct of what He will allow and not allow. God allows man this 'free will' or responsibility BECAUSE He knows already what Man will do and it is fit with perfect shape and balance as apart of Gods plan and His absolute rule. This is why God is still sovereign even when Man has that freedom as nothing is outside knowledge of God to rule mans freedom with absolute supremesy.

Are choices are free because we have made them but...
they are also bound and established Because God has set them.

Clear as mud??

 

You and reformer are sick.

 

Have you ever heard of the Synod of Dort? Do you know that the five points of Reformed theology were a direct refutation of the five points of Arminianism? If you reject one point of Calvinism, then you are at the very least, a one point Arminian. Deny all you want, but the truth still remains. There is no middle ground on the sovereignty of God and the total depravity of man, nor the unmerited favor of God.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I know. We were just supposed to take your word for it...right?:laugh:

If you can't back up your claims, then you shouldn't make them. That is called being honest and fair...has nothing to do with being sick. What is sick is how you fabricate a story about a group of men to make fun of their theology, and then act as if you are beside yourself when someone points out that you have provided no proof for your slanderous claims. That is sick and unChristian. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Joseph Botwinick

 

No wonder ...[removed unkind attack.]

Well I have had 2 heart bypass surgeries. I have no way to back it up because you are no where close so does that make it lie.

 

Is that right? And how do you know this? More unsubstantiated, sick, twisted, UnChristian slander? Bob, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. I don't think, however, that you have any shame.

Joseph Botwinick