Do we sell or we keep the bldg

[JD731]

I have been pastor at our church about 18 months now
Our church needs to make a very important decision

We currently own a building - mortgage is paid off - thus the only bills are
the electricity and water.

The Auditorium can hold about 200, but is unusable in the winter as there is no heat.
That could be from Oct-Apr.
We have services in the basement - which can comfortably hold about 50 but we could
squeeze in 75
Currently we have about 10 in attendance per week

Our building has not been painted in over 20 years and definitely needs one.

There are several other shortcomings. The cost would run into the multi thousands.

We have had an offer from someone to buy our building for $5,000.

We do not want to leave our neighborhood as there are no other close by churches.
None of our members have a home that could be used temporarily.

What considerations should we be thinking?

NOTE: THIS IS NOT A REQUEST FOR FUNDS - JUST ADVICE.

Pastors are called to edify the saints and do the work of an evangelist, not to close their church down. My advice is to increase your missions giving by at least 500% and go outside the building to evangelize the unsaved in your town. Someone said God would put the angels on half rations to support those who will sacrifice for him and do his will. The way to get the financial support you need is to give your money away. God will show himself faithful if you pray for his guidance and for his wisdom.

It is a bad testimony for a church to fail when God has promised to provide for his people.

 

[Salty]

Pastors are called to edify the saints and do the work of an evangelist, not to close their church down. My advice is to increase your missions giving by at least 500% and go outside the building to evangelize the unsaved in your town. Someone said God would put the angels on half rations to support those who will sacrifice for him and do his will. The way to get the financial support you need is to give your money away. God will show himself faithful if you pray for his guidance and for his wisdom.

It is a bad testimony for a church to fail when God has promised to provide for his people.

1) we are not talking about closing the church - the discussion is about selling the church building.
The answers we need is where we would meet -
2) increase missions -by 500% - at best we could only double our missions and even that is doubtful
with the current income we have.
3) Visitation - we have been doing that.

 

[xlsdraw]

Has this congregation historically been as small as it is now?

Has Covid significantly dwindled your numbers?

How long ago was this congregation established?

How long has the congregation been in this building?

How has the congregation dealt with the lack of a heating system, during the cold months, historically?

 

[Salty]

Has this congregation historically been as small as it is now?

Has Covid significantly dwindled your numbers?

How long ago was this congregation established?

How long has the congregation been in this building?

How has the congregation dealt with the lack of a heating system, during the cold months, historically?

1) At times the church has been near attendance of 80-90. Prior to my coming there were 15-20 - several stopped not because of me - but they only came because of the former pastor. One who attended only came because he was the next door neighbor of the pastor - and was the one who drove the pastor to church. He also stated he would never join a church because he would never allow to be under the authority of another man. I know of one man who moved a good distance away at the time I came. And shortly after, another moved to Virginia.

2) Chinese Virus has not really effected attendance - other than maybe visitors not wanting to come - but our County has for the entire time had a low %

3) Church was establish at least 35 years ago as an IFCA church, closed 10 years later - then about a year after re-established with a new name. Evidently, the-then pastor had a scandal.

4) This building has been the only home of the church (under both names) (Previous name was Community Bible Church)

5) We meet in the basement - which does have heat. Not sure when the went kaput - before my time.

 

[Bassoonery]

A sad situation but not one that is beyond God's control. I have a feeling my church from my student days is heading in the same direction so I know that general words of hope might not be enough.

As others have said, God might have unexpected opportunities around the corner if you are willing to set aside traditions including location, timing and even worship format - what about meeting sometimes just for intercessory prayer for the church rather than the usual hymn-sermon sandwich? With 10 members the opportunity for real intimate fellowship beyond the crumbling four walls is much greater. Take a break together, go for a picnic, a walk... and have church wherever you find yourselves.

More practically, I don't know about the US but I know churches in India and the UK who have managed to find worship spaces in shopping malls (on the days they are closed), sports and community centres. Are there empty shop spaces that would appreciate some rental income on Sundays? A Christian small business owner?

If you want to keep the building in some way, is there any chance of finding a sympathetic (Christian) buyer who could let you keep using the basement at a generous rate while they refurbish the building for their own purposes?

 

[Salty]

The indidvidual who wants to buy plans to make apartments -probably 1 and/or 2 room apts.

 

[Marooncat79]

Hit up another church and ask to borrow 415 families for 3 yrs

I know that’s how GARB Churches do it

 

[Benjamin]

i imagine people along the way of this church coming to be put their money on the line to buy this place as place to worship God and wonder if those attending now are those who made this investment or just those thinking about cashing it in. AND concerning stewardship of this property, WHY hasn't the place been painted in 20 years? How much is paint there? Are all your arms broke? I think I'd have issues with why many of these other poor conditions exist as well. Pretty sure I'd be thinking about the potential and my (failed?) responsibility of that $5,000 building rather than thinking it was my responsibility to unload for whatever I can get.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Keep in mind Salty has only been the pastor of this church for 18 months. IOW, he came into the situation when the church was already of life support.

 

[xlsdraw]

I suppose, that as a result of the prophecied "Falling Away", that I personally believe has been going on gradually in America for over 100 years; that there may well be fewer and fewer true-to-Christ churches that remain open.

It has long been my belief, that society will be degraded to the point that it despises the true-to-Christ churches and would welcome the Antichrist at our departure and his emergence.

It may be "Circle the Wagons" time.

By God's grace, to this point, there is still access to sound teaching, worship, and fellowship with some of the true-to-Christ churches through Livestream.

Members of dissolving churches, that can't find a close by church to join, can still in small groups meet and evangelize when they can, while also taking advantage of the Livestream option.

Our church Livestreams all of our services, as do many these days.

 

[Salty]

i imagine people along the way of this church coming to be put their money on the line to buy this place as place to worship God and wonder if those attending now are those who made this investment or just those thinking about cashing it in. AND concerning stewardship of this property, WHY hasn't the place been painted in 20 years? How much is paint there? Are all your arms broke? I think I'd have issues with why many of these other poor conditions exist as well. Pretty sure I'd be thinking about the potential and my (failed?) responsibility of that $5,000 building rather than thinking it was my responsibility to unload for whatever I can get.

At the most only 2 are from the early days - not sure ii they were at the actual beginning.
One is a lady in her 80's - and in very poor health - she is doing good to make it to church once a month
The other is a man with a bad disability - and would be extremely hard for him to much physical work - thus
one reason he is our treasure.
One young man has some non-physical issues - and - well we would get more done .......
Another mid age man - has had two major back operation - hopefully he will be able to get more involved in the near future.
I have several medical issues - and I am probably in the best shape.
Mrs. Salty broke her leg in 3 places - three years ago - and will never be fully healed (at least until the rapture!)
The other lady is raising her two grand children. So yes, Ben "Our arms are broken"

I have recently come in contact with two men - (1 w/ a family) have shown some interest in coming.

Why hasn't this place been painted in 20 years? My only guess is that the last two pastors were only "preachers" and did not properly lead the church. - As I mentioned before the last pastor should have resigned at least 5 years ago - when his wife passed away. Shortly after that - he emotional health went down the drain - and then alstheimer or something similar started to effect him. I was voted in as pastor after he was put into a nursing home.
I have know this pastor for many years - when I was associate pastor at a nearby church. In fact about a dozen years ago, I suggested our two churches merge - but my then pastor did not want to - because he wanted to be senior pastor. - A couple of years later - he passed away. Their current pastor would not agree to a merger for other reasons.

Painting the building? - a painter gave us a guesstimate - about 10 grand. -- it is 3 stories, with basement and attic.

 

[Benjamin]

I have recently come in contact with two men - (1 w/ a family) have shown some interest in coming.

Maybe a little advertising for a few young men - and women - families who would like to take pride in restoring this church would go a long way. Might also send a message in the neighborhood that things are happening at this church.

Painting the building? - a painter gave us a guesstimate - about 10 grand. -- it is 3 stories, with basement and attic.

A few 5 gallon buckets of paint and some elbow grease can go a long way. If the painting materials were to cost $1500 then you've already gained $8500 equity according to that "guesstimate". Often paint stores sell quality paint that has been miss-colored for very cheap. (They can also add a little color to these miss-colored to get it closer to what you want.)

 

[Salty]

Maybe a little advertising for a few young men - and women - families who would like to take pride in restoring this church would go a long way. Might also send a message in the neighborhood that things are happening at this church.

A few 5 gallon buckets of paint and some elbow grease can go a long way. If the painting materials were to cost $1500 then you've already gained $8500 equity according to that "guesstimate". Often paint stores sell quality paint that has been miss-colored for very cheap. (They can also add a little color to these miss-colored to get it closer to what you want.)

That $1500 would be about 30-40 % of our annual budget - IF we bought paint - we have no one who could do the job,
unless we pay someone - I have been working on finding a cooperating church (we are SBC)

 

[Silverhair]

That $1500 would be about 30-40 % of our annual budget - IF we bought paint - we have no one who could do the job,
unless we pay someone - I have been working on finding a cooperating church (we are SBC)

When we were first starting out with our new church we met in a school gym. We did that for about four years. Would that be something that could work for you?

 

[Salty]

When we were first starting out with our new church we met in a school gym. We did that for about four years. Would that be something that could work for you?

Even if we sold the bldg for 5 grand - and we had to pay - say $100 a week rent - that 5 grand would be gone within a year.
In addition if there is another major virus outbreak - then those public facilities would probably be off limits. Last year the Rec center - was close for nearly the entire year.

In addition - we are located in the area of town that we are seeking to reach. Thus transportation would be a problem. Of those attending only 2 of us have vehicles.

 

[canadyjd]

I’m curious, with the building in such bad condition, is there a chance it could be condemned as unusable?

peace to you

 

[Salty]

I’m curious, with the building in such bad condition, is there a chance it could be condemned as unusable?

peace to you

The individual who is interested in the building - things it can be re-hab.

Besides - if we had it condemned - we would have to pay to demolish (of which we do not have the $$) and then we would have to pay to meet elsewhere.

 

[Van]

The Lord blessed us with a successful revitalization effort circa 1990. A church planting organization told us of a new location, and we brought on a young (mid 20's) Pastor who provided excellent bible based sermons. And the third blessing was another church without a building, offered us enough for our old building and allowed us to continue to use the facility (different days and times) with them for two years, which allowed us time to construct our new facility. But we went from about 50 to about 150 during the transition period, which provided the funds.

Your situation seems to be a different kettle of fish. Last point, scripture tells us first comes the spiritual rebirth, then the physical rebirth, so perhaps you are asking the wrong question.

May God bless

 

[Salty]

Your situation seems to be a different kettle of fish. Last point, scripture tells us first comes the spiritual rebirth, then the physical rebirth, so perhaps you are asking the wrong question.

May God bless

Thank you

 

[agedman]

just a few reflections on skimming through this thread.


Because the building is not wood, then may I assume it is either block and or brick?

If I recall you are located west of Albany and are impacted by the lake snow that sweeps the west side of that state.

Therefore, I personally think that a three story building is worth far more than the realtor estimate. The raw land couldn’t be purchased for less than $15,000, and you have a renovate-able three story building on that land. That it is paid off, and there is value in both property and building is significant. The trustie(s) of the church need to meet with you for they are the final legal authorization folks. What are their thoughts?

It matters little what “shape” the building is in, if it I can be renovated, it is worth abundantly more.

Can you give a Zillow link with a street view?