Do you agree with this statement?

[SaggyWoman]

"Most were preoccupied with other matters--arguments about religious esoterica, fights over arcane biblical interpretations, fanciful escapes into theological speculation, heat and fury over drinking or gambling or playing cards or using tobacco, controversies over whether guitars and drums can be used in worship gatherings or whether only pianos and organs produce holy music, and other matters that--in comparison to racism, genocide, carelessness toward the poor and various minorities, exploitation of the environment, and unjust war--seem shamefully trivial, weapons of mass distraction." Brian McLaren, Everything Must Change.

Your thoughts?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

McLaren is very articulate at pointing out problems.

 

[Revmitchell]

The liberal left fallaciously pits two differing paradigms with over simplifying characterizations that have absolutely no effect on the other. Brian McLaren has a liberal agenda to demonize doctrine in an attempt to reconstruct biblical orthodoxy to fit a more palatable mind set based on manmade values that rejects the sweet conviction of the Holy Gost that brings unbelievers to a saving knowledge of Christ and believers to a greater sanctification which in both cases is a biblical repentance grounded in the submisive heart God deserves from His creation.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

The liberal left fallaciously pits two differing paradigms with over simplifying characterizations that have absolutely no effect on the other. Brian McLaren has a liberal agenda to demonize doctrine in an attempt to reconstruct biblical orthodoxy to fit a more palatable mind set based on manmade values that rejects the sweet conviction of the Holy Gost that brings unbelievers to a saving knowledge of Christ and believers to a greater sanctification which in both cases is a biblical repentance grounded in the submisive heart God deserves from His creation.

Don't take my statement for any more than it says .

McLaren is excellent at pointing out problems - too bad he has all the wrong answers.

 

[Benjamin]

...Brian McLaren has a liberal agenda to demonize doctrine in an attempt to reconstruct biblical orthodoxy to fit a more palatable mind set based on manmade values that rejects the sweet conviction of the Holy Gost that brings unbelievers to a saving knowledge of Christ and believers to a greater sanctification which in both cases is a biblical repentance grounded in the submisive heart God deserves from His creation.

Man, that was a mouth full! Your not tryng to take my record for long sentences are you! :laugh: :thumbsup:

 

[Beth]

both in error

"Most were preoccupied with other matters--arguments about religious esoterica, fights over arcane biblical interpretations, fanciful escapes into theological speculation, heat and fury over drinking or gambling or playing cards or using tobacco, controversies over whether guitars and drums can be used in worship gatherings or whether only pianos and organs produce holy music, and other matters that--in comparison to racism, genocide, carelessness toward the poor and various minorities, exploitation of the environment, and unjust war--seem shamefully trivial, weapons of mass distraction." Brian McLaren, Everything Must Change.

Your thoughts?

The solution is a the rebirth by believing in Christ....for both extremes mentioned in this quote!

 

[Gold Dragon]

"Most were preoccupied with other matters--arguments about religious esoterica, fights over arcane biblical interpretations, fanciful escapes into theological speculation, heat and fury over drinking or gambling or playing cards or using tobacco, controversies over whether guitars and drums can be used in worship gatherings or whether only pianos and organs produce holy music, and other matters that--in comparison to racism, genocide, carelessness toward the poor and various minorities, exploitation of the environment, and unjust war--seem shamefully trivial, weapons of mass distraction." Brian McLaren, Everything Must Change.

Your thoughts?

I agree that the things he says are esoteric are esoteric and the things he says are more important are more important.

Who is the "Most" that is being referenced?

 

[SaggyWoman]

"most" referred to....."church leaders".

 

[sag38]

Who is Brian McLaren? I would assume an Emerging Church leader? If so, while I might agree with his assessment I certainly can't not agree with the solutions.

 

[Goldie]

Most were preoccupied with other matters--arguments about religious esoterica, fights over arcane biblical interpretations, fanciful escapes into theological speculation, heat and fury over drinking or gambling or playing cards or using tobacco, controversies over whether guitars and drums can be used in worship gatherings or whether only pianos and organs produce holy music, and other matters that--in comparison to racism, genocide, carelessness toward the poor and various minorities, exploitation of the environment, and unjust war--seem shamefully trivial, weapons of mass distraction." Brian McLaren, Everything Must Change.

I guess it fits in really well with his dominion theology, and to say, "fights over arcane biblical interpretations", it's clear to me that Mr McLaren (or is it doctor?) doesn't hold the Word of God in high-esteem, because to me he seems to be a people pleaser, not a God pleaser. Of course there will be wars and poor people - that's what Jesus said, and we'll never be able to correct the situation - that's why He's returning - to take control of the situation and to rule with a rod of iron, in righteousness. I must admit it's good psychology on the part of McLaren - but I can see right through it, because when he stated that about the guitars, piano's and drums - it sounded like the bollocks it is - because it's not about guitars, pianos and drums - it's about incorporating wordly music and lyrics into the church that don't glorify God.

 

[Crabtownboy]

"Most were preoccupied with other matters--arguments about religious esoterica, fights over arcane biblical interpretations, fanciful escapes into theological speculation, heat and fury over drinking or gambling or playing cards or using tobacco, controversies over whether guitars and drums can be used in worship gatherings or whether only pianos and organs produce holy music, and other matters that--in comparison to racism, genocide, carelessness toward the poor and various minorities, exploitation of the environment, and unjust war--seem shamefully trivial, weapons of mass distraction." Brian McLaren, Everything Must Change.

Your thoughts?

He is right. Look at this board and the fighting over trival matters and when important ones are mentioned, like racism, genocide, the poor, etc. the first thing that happens is the "L" word immediatly appears. If we look at Christ's life as our example than it is impossible not to see that he how strongly emphasised how we treat people, then it is obvious that these are more important issues than that we all agree on every jot and tiddle.

:tonofbricks:

 

[Marcia]

He is right. Look at this board and the fighting over trival matters and when important ones are mentioned, like racism, genocide, the poor, etc. the first thing that happens is the "L" word immediatly appears. If we look at Christ's life as our example than it is impossible not to see that he how strongly emphasised how we treat people, then it is obvious that these are more important issues than that we all agree on every jot and tiddle.

:tonofbricks:

But this is a debate board, for the purposes of debate over many issues, or pretty much whatever is brought up. I agree some issues seem silly or trivial.

If it's done correctly, debate sharpens us, helps us clarify things (even just for the individual if no one else), instructs, etc. Debate should not be argument, though we certainly fall into this at times and it's regrettable.

The fact there are more important issues does not make it wrong to debate some of the issues debated here.

Brian McLaren is like a magician -- he gets people to look at one hand while he does something with the other no one sees. He loves to point an accusing finger at evangelicals who hold to Jesus being the only way while at the same time talk about what Jesus said, when all the while he himself does not seem to accept all of what Jesus said.

He wrote a terrible analysis of John 14.6 that was soundly refuted by a seminary professor. What he said in this piece (and I read every word) was perhaps one of the best examples of twisting scripture that I've ever read. This sealed it for me on where he's coming from and gave more evidence of his lack of biblical understaning.

 

[Revmitchell]

He is right. Look at this board and the fighting over trival matters and when important ones are mentioned, like racism, genocide, the poor, etc. the first thing that happens is the "L" word immediatly appears. If we look at Christ's life as our example than it is impossible not to see that he how strongly emphasised how we treat people, then it is obvious that these are more important issues than that we all agree on every jot and tiddle.

:tonofbricks:

This post surprises me not seeing that you and McLaren have the same poor view of scripture. I am assuming you are including yourself in this agreement with McLaren since you take part in a great many debates on this board.

 

[JustChristian]

"Most were preoccupied with other matters--arguments about religious esoterica, fights over arcane biblical interpretations, fanciful escapes into theological speculation, heat and fury over drinking or gambling or playing cards or using tobacco, controversies over whether guitars and drums can be used in worship gatherings or whether only pianos and organs produce holy music, and other matters that--in comparison to racism, genocide, carelessness toward the poor and various minorities, exploitation of the environment, and unjust war--seem shamefully trivial, weapons of mass distraction." Brian McLaren, Everything Must Change.

Your thoughts?

I think he's largely correct. The gospel is really very simple. We make it complicated. The church has become so intertwined with the Republican party I believe most church members cannot separate the two. Of course it's better to spend hundreds of Billions of dollars on an unjust war. Much better than to spend money on those poor freeloaders who don't have medical insurance. Of course it's perfectly acceptable for a professing Christian to trash God's creation. After all, only those environmental loonies want to spend our money to clean up our mess.

We should stop welfare. Only those minority women who have more babies to collect more money collect it anyway. We don't care about them anyway.

All that being said, I just finished reading this book and asked my Assistant Pastor whether McLaren believes in an afterlife. So, I think he has had some good ideas but might fall far short in the end.

 

[Aaron]

The liberal left fallaciously pits two differing paradigms with over simplifying characterizations that have absolutely no effect on the other. Brian McLaren has a liberal agenda to demonize doctrine in an attempt to reconstruct biblical orthodoxy to fit a more palatable mind set based on manmade values that rejects the sweet conviction of the Holy Gost that brings unbelievers to a saving knowledge of Christ and believers to a greater sanctification which in both cases is a biblical repentance grounded in the submisive heart God deserves from His creation.

Excellent. :thumbs:

 

[Shortandy]

"Most were preoccupied with other matters--arguments about religious esoterica, fights over arcane biblical interpretations, fanciful escapes into theological speculation, heat and fury over drinking or gambling or playing cards or using tobacco, controversies over whether guitars and drums can be used in worship gatherings or whether only pianos and organs produce holy music, and other matters that--in comparison to racism, genocide, carelessness toward the poor and various minorities, exploitation of the environment, and unjust war--seem shamefully trivial, weapons of mass distraction." Brian McLaren, Everything Must Change.

Your thoughts?

I agree that we waste much of our time arguing when we need to be sharing the Gospel...but McLaren is no better than the people he is throwing stones at here. He spends more time trying to speak on social issues than he does Christ and being born again.

He is a great speaker but no theologian. I take hardly anything he says as something of value.

 

[PeterM]

I would agree that the enemy and our own sinful natures have taken our "eye off the ball" so to speak. I don't think he is incorrect in his statement, as I too believe that all to often church folks turn insignificant issues, rooted in personal preferences, into divisive arguments that rob the whole church of energy and resources that should be used to impact and influence the world for the Kingdom.

That said, the responce is always to re-embrace the scriptures and the indwelling the of the Holy Spirit and push forward.

 

[PeterM]

This post surprises me not seeing that you and McLaren have the same poor view of scripture. I am assuming you are including yourself in this agreement with McLaren since you take part in a great many debates on this board.

Wow... the love is really flowing now!:wavey: