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Do You Believe In "Infant Regeneration?"
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
It as some like RC Sproul would say...
That God can grant new hearts to even infants, elects them at infancy and that will be confirmed by them receiving Christ once older...
basically, belief that regeneration can be several years before actually faith placed in Christ....
To your first question, no, as the spiritually dead need regenerating and I do not believe Scripture teaches infants are spiritually separated from God. Their natures, yes, as it has been appointed unto man ONCE to die.
If it's yes the only way a spiritually dead person is saved is by grace through faith. They must be saved in like manner
God doesn't "elect them at infancy".
God elected every one of His beloved in eternity past, before the creation of the world.
All the elect have sin atoned for. All the non-elect do not have sin atoned for.
Being atoned for by the Son, the Father can justify the individual and fit us for heaven. He can then have the Spirit regene us as His new creation.
Obviously an infant or mentally-impaired person cannot repent and believe. That is an outward visible sign of the inward invisible change. So even without this, the Father can justify the infant IF the Son atoned for its sin and the Spirit implants a new nature.
God elected every one of His beloved in eternity past, before the creation of the world.
All the elect have sin atoned for. All the non-elect do not have sin atoned for.
Being atoned for by the Son, the Father can justify the individual and fit us for heaven. He can then have the Spirit regene us as His new creation.
Obviously an infant or mentally-impaired person cannot repent and believe. That is an outward visible sign of the inward invisible change. So even without this, the Father can justify the infant IF the Son atoned for its sin and the Spirit implants a new nature.
What a silly thing to say, webdog. You might want to think this through before posting.
A fellow once said faith comes by hearing and no one could be saved without hearing the Gospel. I asked him about deaf folks and he stammered and stuttered in confusion.
Salvation is whoever God ordains to be saved. THAT is the orthodox position on salvation. If He ordains a retarded man who cannot repent/believe to be saved, that fellow is saved. God does that. It is HIS grace alone, not man's xyz prayer or such.
Same with babies. If you read your post (that no one receives grace without faith) then all babies go to hell. All retarded go to hell. All young children who have not saving faith go to hell.
That is evil and I'm calling you down on that sort of talk.
JESUSFAN...now you also see what happens when you start with a false presupposition, it leads to false conclusions (bolded)
...also if we take Dr bob's thinking to it's logical path, those dying as atheists, hindus, muslims, occultists and satan worshippers may also be saved apart from grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone since it's "whoever God ordains to be saved"
See, the issue is that we want to end up in the same place: that God does not send "innocents" to hell. Isn't that right? So some believe that it is not until we get to a certain age and understand sin and such before we are credited with sin and so before that point, we are "pure" enough to get to heaven. But then there are others who believe that God has chosen those who will be saved and He can do that even with an infant.
I'm more of the second camp. I do not believe that one must do the 1,2,3, pray like me kind of thing to be saved but that God can bring salvation to whoever He wants. That includes infants. I believe that salvation comes by faith and I know that it's a mystery how any one of us come to faith in Christ and I think it's the same with children.
Of course the term "I think" is the key here. The Bible just doesn't say anything about salvation in babies so I don't think we can necessarily stand on a rock and say "This is it!!" I could be wrong. Anyone else can be wrong. I don't believe we'll know this side of paradise.
I'm more of the second camp. I do not believe that one must do the 1,2,3, pray like me kind of thing to be saved but that God can bring salvation to whoever He wants. That includes infants. I believe that salvation comes by faith and I know that it's a mystery how any one of us come to faith in Christ and I think it's the same with children.
Of course the term "I think" is the key here. The Bible just doesn't say anything about salvation in babies so I don't think we can necessarily stand on a rock and say "This is it!!" I could be wrong. Anyone else can be wrong. I don't believe we'll know this side of paradise.
Hey webdog.....if we take some of your posts on romans 5,,
those dying as atheists, hindus, muslims, occultists and satan worshippers
might not even need to be saved....because they did not really die in Adam spiritually..just physically as you have informed us.....maybe they never heard of adam or sin....maybe they lived pure lives...maybe this, maybe that....
Because if you deny
will be saved.... where do you go from there?
Are you saying that whosoever God decrees to be saved will not be saved?
leave your supposed Logical thinking....and follow the scriptural teaching.
most all of the believing church has believed that[the confessions teaching] to be the scriptural teaching...have you found others who agree with your logical novelty??
Like it or not Romans 8 is spoken of as a golden chain...that cannot be broken...elect infants, mentally handicapped are found in there,
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So we discard the immutable truth "by grace you are saved through faith" in favor of a confession?
Obviously the readers of Eph 2 were capable of reading (or hearing) and understanding. Not retarded or babies. They could demonstrate invisible internal regeneration by external visible repentance and faith.
Babies can't. Where does it say that the only way to heaven for babies, retarded people, anyone is that they must "do something (that babies, retarded people cannot do)??
Neither is there salvation in any other, only Jesus' blood. But where does it say the baby must repent and believe and confess before others or it goes to hell?
Discard the truth? No. UNDERSTAND the truth. The problem occurs when one takes a single short pithy phrase or verse and tries to say EVERYTHING about the Gospel is encompassed in that one phrase. Simply not true.
The doctrine of salvation is covered in content in MANY verses, not just "believe". (even demons believe). Salvation is a complex multi-faceted work of Grace, not some simple 1-2-3-pray-after-me-ditty.
Babies can't. Where does it say that the only way to heaven for babies, retarded people, anyone is that they must "do something (that babies, retarded people cannot do)??
Neither is there salvation in any other, only Jesus' blood. But where does it say the baby must repent and believe and confess before others or it goes to hell?
Discard the truth? No. UNDERSTAND the truth. The problem occurs when one takes a single short pithy phrase or verse and tries to say EVERYTHING about the Gospel is encompassed in that one phrase. Simply not true.
The doctrine of salvation is covered in content in MANY verses, not just "believe". (even demons believe). Salvation is a complex multi-faceted work of Grace, not some simple 1-2-3-pray-after-me-ditty.
webdog....no..that is the teaching of the confession,why do you struggle with this....the scriptures are over any confession...that is why each confession starts off stating that very thing
there is no contradiction here.
You know wh agrees with my logical novelty? The one who wrote that I was once dead in my trespasses and sins in which I used to walk. I'm in pretty good company, huh?
webdog, explain how you think Paul agrees with you...
are you saying that a person must make an intellectual choice, but babies and mentally handicapped cannot sin, so they do not need to? something like that?
are you saying that a person must make an intellectual choice, but babies and mentally handicapped cannot sin, so they do not need to? something like that?
But then again we say, "Jesus Saves" however Jesus only saves those who can drum up enough faith and make the right decision concerning Jesus or somehow can acquire the faith it takes to be saved from God and then make the right decision therefore saving themselves.
What is the difference between the two?
Everything the Lord has said we/I will do. What they said when the law was given.
I believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Or is God through election reconciling the world unto himself through Christ.
Or as it says in Eph.1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
Through election.
I will give my take anyway even though silence likely means no.
Infant regeneration---------------old man regeneration?
Flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God. Yes or No?
In the passage that comes from, when is the kingdom of God inherited?
and as it is laid up to men once to die, and after this -- judgment,
Does this cover both infants and old people?
Why do we have to assign infants or anyone to hell or heaven/kingdom of God now?
What is judgment here? To receive what has already been determined?
We know from scripture that Satan has deceived the whole world from the beginning. Could judgment here include any instruction in the love of God?
Is the job of the priest and kings ruling with Christ to teach or to gather up folks and throw them in hell fire?
God will be the righteous judge.