Do You Believe In "Infant Regeneration?"

[Luke2427]

To your first question, no, as the spiritually dead need regenerating and I do not believe Scripture teaches infants are spiritually separated from God. Their natures, yes, as it has been appointed unto man ONCE to die.

If it's yes the only way a spiritually dead person is saved is by grace through faith. They must be saved in like manner

Then these babies get to heaven apart from the blood of Christ.

Christ died for sin- if these babies are not sinners then Christ did not die for them.

Therefore you have billions of people- the vast majority of the human race in heaven- you have them there without Christ.

More babies and small children die every day than adults. If all babies go to heaven, as I believe they do, but if they go to heaven because they are not sinners- then Christ saved a small minority of the human race that makes it to heaven.

 

[webdog]

webdog, explain how you think Paul agrees with you...

It's pretty self explanatory, iconoclast. What does Paul say in Ephesians 2:1 and Colossians 2:13? How can you deny we are dead in our trespasses and sins...when Paul states just that?

are you saying that a person must make an intellectual choice, but babies and mentally handicapped cannot sin, so they do not need to? something like that?

Nothing like that.

 

[webdog]

Hey webdog.....if we take some of your posts on romans 5,,
those dying as atheists, hindus, muslims, occultists and satan worshippers

might not even need to be saved....because they did not really die in Adam spiritually..just physically as you have informed us.....maybe they never heard of adam or sin....maybe they lived pure lives...maybe this, maybe that....

Not even close. Pure strawman.

Because if you deny Quote:
"whoever God ordains to be saved
will be saved.... where do you go from there?

I go to Scripture, not a confession. I don't deny it...I deny the extra-biblical view God will ordain those without faith to be saved as Dr. Bob stated and you agreed to.

Are you saying that whosoever God decrees to be saved will not be saved?

Where do you get this stuff

leave your supposed Logical thinking....and follow the scriptural teaching.

:laugh: I'm sure you can supply "scriptural teaching" that there is another dispensation of salvation other than by grace through faith. Who is using "logical thinking" and who is abiding by scriptural truth?

most all of the believing church has believed that[the confessions teaching] to be the scriptural teaching...have you found others who agree with your logical novelty??

Why the need for patronizing insults? Proof that the majority of the believing church believes there is another way of salvation sans "grace through faith"?

Like it or not Romans 8 is spoken of as a golden chain...that cannot be broken...elect infants, mentally handicapped are found in there,

I love Romans 8, just like I love Romans 5

 

[Iconoclast]

Not even close. Pure strawman.
AGREED
Of course it was a strawman:thumbsup: I just wanted to irritate you a bit and stir you up

I go to Scripture, not a confession.

Webdog.... it is always good to go to scripture. We all should be doing that often. Those that wrote the confessions loved to go to scripture...thats why I have grown to respect these men, as men of God. I need to check my own ideas by others who have loved the Lord and his word. Most of these men had exceedingly more gifts and graces than I do...so I like to compare my ideas to what they understood.
Webdog...do you read other writings or teachings,study books? Are they any different then looking at a confession of faith in that we look through them looking for some additional truth ...and we leave what we do not think agrees with the scripture?

I don't deny it...I deny the extra-biblical view God will ordain those without faith to be saved as Dr. Bob stated and you agreed to.

We see this different from you, because as Dr.Bob pointed out we believe the bible in that God has already chosen those whom he intends to save before the world was....Like Ezekiels infant ezk16 God choose to have mercy on us,and provide all we need for life and godliness.
The normal means for most persons is to hear the word preached and yet as has been discussed...what of those who incapable of this?
The question is can God have mercy on whom he will have mercy? Can he save who He wants to save? I cannot speak for Dr. Bob...but I think we are on the same page here.

Where do you get this stuff :

We get this "stuff" from a scriptural view of God's grace and mercy

:laugh: I'm sure you can supply "scriptural teaching" that there is another dispensation of salvation other than by grace through faith.

No...we believe in salvation by grace through faith

Who is using "logical thinking" and who is abiding by scriptural truth?

I think you know what my answer might be here:thumbs:

Why the need for patronizing insults?
Not meant to be so much of an insult, but i thought your comments and caricature of Dr.Bob's view were somewhat unkind. I do not think Dr.Bob would really call you out on that aspect of your comments.
Webdog....I know that many times when you are focused your comments provoke thought and provide a balance,like others on here.
We do not agree so often..that is in part what makes a discussion board what it is. The contrast can cause growth...or it can try to just be negative and drag down.... Lets' work at trying to edify each other more...do you agree that we can both do this a bit more, even with our differences? Proof that the majority of the believing church believes there is another way of salvation sans "grace through faith"?
I love Romans 8, just like I love Romans 5

So do I: You would think we could agree on the meaning of the passages more then.

 

[JesusFan]

Not even close. Pure strawman.
I go to Scripture, not a confession. I don't deny it...I deny the extra-biblical view God will ordain those without faith to be saved as Dr. Bob stated and you agreed to.
Where do you get this stuff
:laugh: I'm sure you can supply "scriptural teaching" that there is another dispensation of salvation other than by grace through faith. Who is using "logical thinking" and who is abiding by scriptural truth?
Why the need for patronizing insults? Proof that the majority of the believing church believes there is another way of salvation sans "grace through faith"?
I love Romans 8, just like I love Romans 5

IF we take than your premise that ONLY saving faith exercised can allow one to access the grace of God ....

than how do infants small kids mentally challenged etc all get saved/regenerated by God? Are they all lost?

 

[JesusFan]

God doesn't "elect them at infancy".

God elected every one of His beloved in eternity past, before the creation of the world.

All the elect have sin atoned for. All the non-elect do not have sin atoned for.

Being atoned for by the Son, the Father can justify the individual and fit us for heaven. He can then have the Spirit regene us as His new creation.

Obviously an infant or mentally-impaired person cannot repent and believe. That is an outward visible sign of the inward invisible change. So even without this, the Father can justify the infant IF the Son atoned for its sin and the Spirit implants a new nature.

Does regeneration come before excercising faith in adults than?
A person has a new heart/reborn before placing personal faith in Christ?

I do believe that God grace covers up/atones for these 'special needs/cases" of infants small kid mentally challenged etc
Not regenrated but covered by blood of Christ in a special admin of it

Do you hold that a baby or small child can actually be regenerated by God and take years before actually placing faith in jesus though?

 

[Dr. Bob]

Does regeneration come before excercising faith in adults than? A person has a new heart/reborn before placing personal faith in Christ?

Of course. How else can a man without faith and without capability to repent/believe then seek/come/call/believe/accept do so without a "new birth" that changes his heart/nature?

I do believe that God grace covers up/atones for these 'special needs/cases" of infants small kid mentally challenged etc Not regenrated but covered by blood of Christ in a special admin of it

Huh? You HAVE to be regenerated/born again with a new spiritual nature to replace the fallen hell-bound nature to go to heaven. It is the invisible inward act of God. He can do it when/to whom HE desires.

Can a baby or small child can actually be regenerated by God and take years before actually placing faith in jesus though?

Now THAT is a great question because I am not God and do not know the exact time frame. For all I have known and talked to, the inward work of regening by God precedes BUT almost simultaneous with our response to that regening by repentance and faith.

Personally do NOT see inward "regeneration" separated by long time periods from the outward response. But may not be instantaneous. Testimony: Knew the gospel. Knew my sinfulness. NO ability/desire to repent/believe on March 16 1957. By March 17 I was under such conviction of the holy Spirit that I dared not go to sleep without calling on the name of the Lord. SOMEWHERE in that 24 hours God changed my heart of stone into a heart of flesh and enabled me to call on Christ.

My son said he was the same way. Went forward in church at invitation and we asked him if he wanted to pray to trust Christ. He said he did that in the pew; that was why he responded to the invitation (heart was changed in pew, not at some 1-2-3 ditty prayer)

Trust this helps.

 

[percho]

When we all get to heaven,
What a day of rejoicing that will be.

I do not remember all the words to this song and have not looked at them before posting this. But just from those above.

Does this take place one or two at a time or in a group? Do we all get there at the same time? What a day. What day? Is this any and every day or a specific day?

When the roll is called up yonder.

Is the roll continuously being called? Will it be called at some point in time?

When are the sheep and the goats separated?

Infant Regeneration?

Regeneration just twice in the whole New Testament. In Mathew 19 I believe, but I'm not sure, we can all agree it is relative to the time of the resurrection. The second time in Titus 3:5 is also relative to resurrection.
The resurrection of Jesus. It is the regeneration of Jesus by which his death, blood washes us of past sins. He then received the renewal of the Holy Spirit from the Father. Verse 6 He, Jesus then sheds the Holy Spirit from the Father on us by which he the Father, hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

That hope is that we also will be resurrected to life from the dead.

Do we die and go to heaven or are resurrected to eternal life?

I am assured by the Holy Spirit that I am going to be resurrected to eternal life.
Why because Christ had faith that he would be and I have that same, We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present [us] with you.

 

[JesusFan]

Of course. How else can a man without faith and without capability to repent/believe then seek/come/call/believe/accept do so without a "new birth" that changes his heart/nature?

Huh? You HAVE to be regenerated/born again with a new spiritual nature to replace the fallen hell-bound nature to go to heaven. It is the invisible inward act of God. He can do it when/to whom HE desires.

Now THAT is a great question because I am not God and do not know the exact time frame. For all I have known and talked to, the inward work of regening by God precedes BUT almost simultaneous with our response to that regening by repentance and faith.

Personally do NOT see inward "regeneration" separated by long time periods from the outward response. But may not be instantaneous. Testimony: Knew the gospel. Knew my sinfulness. NO ability/desire to repent/believe on March 16 1957. By March 17 I was under such conviction of the holy Spirit that I dared not go to sleep without calling on the name of the Lord. SOMEWHERE in that 24 hours God changed my heart of stone into a heart of flesh and enabled me to call on Christ.

My son said he was the same way. Went forward in church at invitation and we asked him if he wanted to pray to trust Christ. He said he did that in the pew; that was why he responded to the invitation (heart was changed in pew, not at some 1-2-3 ditty prayer)

Trust this helps.

is regeneration than same as new birth, when we get a new nature "In Christ?"

What would have happen to you IF God had regenerated you earlier, but you were in a car accident and passed away before receiving Christ by personal faith?

Do you see that even your faith to believe was a Gift from god?

 

[Dr. Bob]

is regeneration than same as new birth, when we get a new nature "In Christ?"

Regeneration = born again = new creation = quicken = made alive
All synonyms for the same invisible act of the holy Spirit of God changing my soul

What would have happen to you IF God had regenerated you earlier, but you were in a car accident and passed away before receiving Christ by personal faith?

If God's Spirit regenerates a soul, that soul is regenerated. He does this to all those the Father chose and the Son atoned for. The timetable is God's not mine.

What of an elect baby still in utero who is killed in that car accident? Never believed but still re-gened.

Do you see that even your faith to believe was a Gift from god?

Absolutely. In me, in my old nature is NOTHING good. I had no saving faith within me and even if I did I could not use it. And would have no desire to use it!! (that would be a good work of which I was incapable). Even what men today might consider good or right is vile and filthy to God.

We have billions of religious people FULL of "faith" in the world today. Not one has saving "faith" unless the Father gives it to them. I'm preaching the Wheat and Weeds in the second parable of the kingdom's mystery (Mt 13) when I return home.

For people capable of real faith (mature enough, mentally capable) they WILL demonstrate that faith to show outwardly the inward fact of regeneration. Even then, it will be hard to be anywhere close to certain of their eternal salvation.