DO YOU BELIEVE IN SPEAKING IN TONGUES

[Christopher]

How many men Pentecostals (since they are the only ones who are to be practicing tongues in the meetings anyway) have ever spoken in tongues publicly and another man interpreted what you said? EVERY word you said...

Anything done outside of those clear regulations in scripture is NOT Biblical! PERIOD.

Grace be with you, Christopher

[ March 14, 2002, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Christopher ]

 

[DocCas]

Originally posted by qwerty:
From the posts given by those opposing tongues (and the gifts), no evidence of origin for their doctrine of cessationism is given outside of man.

qwerty, why do you keep lying about this? I have posted the bible texts which say "tongues shall cease" and posted where Paul even says "now abideth . . . these three." Why do you keep lying and say I use men and not the word of God to support my position? Does "speaking in tongues" require you to be a liar? Don't you realize Jesus Chris is The Truth and to disregard the truth by lying as you have done, is to disregard the Lord Jesus Christ Himself?

 

[DocCas]

qwerty, also, I sent you an email at the email address you used to register on the Baptist Board but you have not yet answered the email nor complied with my offical request. If you do no do so within the next 12 hours I will have to take official action as a Baptist Board Administrator.

 

[qwerty]

Mr. Cassidy, I have complied with your requests.

Mr. Cassidy,
I know you are a very educated person. Therefore, I assume certain things. One, that you have read a lot. And you have been taught a lot. I assume you grew up in a church environment.

What I do know is that what you are saying is almost verbatim what I was saying 30 - 40 years ago. And what I was saying 30 - 40 years ago was what my mentors were saying from 1940 - 1970, which is what their mentors were saying for almost 100 years before them.

So I do not know what to think when you basically say that you did not get your teaching about gifts ending at 100 A.D. from a man. I do know that what you have written here is essentially verbatim what I have read in at least 100 books on this topic, and most of them were written over 40 years ago.
I have not heard you say that you had divine revelation from God, and that God gave you this teaching. What I have heard you say is that you studied hard, and came to these conclusions.

I would only ask this question:
Did you grow up in the church?
Were you taught this doctrine growing up?
If you had any awareness of this doctrine before you graduated from high school, then you are not able to say that you were able to study and figure it out. If you had awareness of this doctrine before you graduated from high school, then origination becomes a major issue.

If you did not have an awareness of this doctrine before you graduated from high school, then you have to address the area of whether the source is God or you. If the source if God, give Him credit, and say that you had a revelation from God about this doctrine. That will get you in trouble with your conservative friends. If the source is you, then I hope you will understand why I question it.

[ March 15, 2002, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: qwerty ]

 

[DocCas]

Originally posted by qwerty:
Did you grow up in the church?

No.

Were you taught this doctrine growing up?

No.

If you had any awareness of this doctrine before you graduated from high school, then you are not able to say that you were able to study and figure it out.

I had never darkened the door of a church until I was over 27 years of age.

If the source if God, give Him credit, and say that you had a revelation from God about this doctrine.

I did give God the credit. God is the author of 1 Corinthians chapter 13 which clearly says "tongues shall cease" and "now abideth . . . these three" (faith, hope, and love).

That will get you in trouble with your conservative friends.

No, all my conservative friends believe in the inspiration of the bible.

 

[qwerty]

Mr. Cassidy,
We do agree that tongues will cease.
Your understanding is that they ended at 100 A.D.
My understanding is that they end at the end of this age.

Don't you find it interesting that your conclusions about 1 Cor. 13 are exactly what was written for most of this century?

Are you saying that you had never heard of this doctrine before you began to study it?

Do you agree that your conclusions are the same as others on this topic of cessationism? Do you agree that many others before you (for 100 years at least) have said the same thing?

 

[DocCas]

Catholics have taught false doctrine for 1600 years.

Modelists have taught false doctrine for 1700 years.

Mormons have taught false doctrine for 150 years.

Jehovah's Witnesses have taught false doctrine for 120 years.

Charismatics have taught false doctrine for 96 years.

What is your point? That you have fallen for a false doctrine that has been taught for 96 years? That you deny the clear teaching of the bible in favor of a man-made and false doctrine which has been taught for 96 years? I already know that. It is patently obvious.

 

[qwerty]

Thanks for the give and take that we have seen in this thread. I appreciate those on the side of opposition to tongues taking the time to interact, and give their views. As we are aware, this is a volatile topic among Christians.

I have personally learned a lot during this thread, and for that, I give my thanks.

God bless

 

[Ray Berrian]

I don't have the 'gifts of the Spirit' but I find it interesting how ammillinialists believe that the 'the gifts of the Spirit' ended with the death of the apostles. They believe some things God will not use in our time framework--meaning the 'gifts of the Spirit.' They like dispensationalism when it fits their needs.

Respectfully,

Ray

 

[Don]

For those that might have seen this question before I edited it, my apologies; I needed to find a better way of putting it.

Ray, your post begs a question. When Steven and Phillip were made "deacons," they both exhibited great faith, and great wonders and miracles.

However, the apostles, who had already laid hands on both of these men, had to come to Samaria to lay hands on the people that Phillip led to the Lord, in order for the Holy Spirit to fill them.

The same goes for the Ethiopian eunuch; there's no record of Phillip laying hands on him, either. The record of being suddenly filled by the Holy Spirit in this account is what happened to Phillip.

If this sort of gift wasn't just for the apostles, then why didn't Phillip have it?

[ March 18, 2002, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

[n2ChristJ]

Originally posted by Thomas Cassidy:
There was to be a time when the gift of tongues would cease. [/qb]

Thomas I am going to have to study this more but what you say makes sense to me. I will read and study 1 Corinth. 13.

I believe the speaking of tongues in Bible times is someone who speakes another language and someone is there to interperate(sp)it or understands what is being said with the help of the Holy Spirit. This was a spirital gift given to those by God.

Now in our time speaking in tongues is not nessary because God has provided people with the gift to be able to learn different languages and can be interperaters for other people.

My husband doesn't have any Mexican background but in college he was able to learn how to speak spanish and became a teacher of spanish. It came very easy for him to learn this language, a gift from God. As for me I've tried to learn the langage and came to the conclusion God didn't give me the gift to learn that language,or probably any other language. I have hard enough trouble with my own, English. he,he,he.

But then I have heard of stories where missionaries have spoken in the countries tougue they were in and they never learned how to talk in that language. But God does work in mysterious ways.

your sis in Christ,

Chris VZ

[ March 19, 2002, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: n2ChristJ ]

 

[JAMES2]

No!
James2

 

[Rev. Joshua]

I'm not sure that the "tongues" in I Corinthians 13 is glossalalia, since Paul immediately afterward says that "knowledge" will also cease. In 13:8 Prophecy, tongues and knowledge are lumped together as things that will all pass away, creating literary symmetry with 13:1-3 where Paul says these same things are worthless without love.

Paul is contrasting the things of the head with the things of the heart, and saying that the former are worthless without the latter; and that the things of the heart (faith, hope, and love) are all that is eternal.

I don't think in any way that Paul is making a prophecy about the dissapperance of the gift of tongues, since if he were then it would be expected to coincide with the dissappearance of knowledge.

None of this is to say that I support the use of glossalalia in worship. Unless you can present me with a tongue-speaker and an interpreter who understands every word of it; it won't happen in any worship service I'm in charge of.

Joshua

 

[Daniel David]

Hebrews 2:1-4

1 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?

The signs, wonders, various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit were to testify of the person and work of Jesus the Christ. These have ceased as far as coming from a person. Let me explain, there exists no healer today or anyone that can do what the apostles did. However these things do exist today. Let me explain, these various things are done directly by God according to His own will. People are have been miraculously healed today. It isn't because of a person. It is because God did it directly. Stories of people hearing the gospel in their own language that the preacher didn't speak is a direct act of God and not the speaker. So on and so forth.

 

[hrhema]

Love will last forever but prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and specail knowledge will all disappear. Now we know a little, and even the gift of propehcy reveals little! But when the end comes these special gifts will all disappear.
I Corinthians 13:8. New Living Translation.

Unknown languages does not denote languages people understand yet throughout this thread most people focused on saying Tongues are known languages totally.

Paul said If I speak in the Tongues of Men and Angels in the same chapter. Also he spoke of groanings that cannot be uttered. He spoke of the spirit praying through men.

Pentecostals do not believe all the tongues they speak in are tongues of angels or even unknown tongues. It has been proven that there has been those who have spoken in known languages that they did not know.

This in itself should be considered a miracle that those on the day of Pentecost could speak in a language they did not know or never had learned.

This happened so the people could see what was happening was of God but what profit would it have been for those say in Cornelius' home in the Book of Acts to have spoken in known languages or any of the others who spoke in tongues when the Holy Ghost came on them.

The term prophecy is spoken of but people want to say that was the reading of the word. That is ridiculous. Do we think that is what the Prophets of the the Old Testament did. What did Agabus the prophet do? He prophesied about a great Storm coming and he also prophesied about what was going to happen to Paul in Jerusalem.
So many people want to take things and make it fit their beliefs and have absolutely no Biblical context for what they are saying.

Paul did not say tongues would cease until he that is perfect comes. Well we all know that is Jesus and he has not come again. The version I posted at the beginning says they will cease at the end time. The end time did not happen at the deaths of the apostles or 100 AD.

Paul himself said he spoke in tongues more than
anyone else. Yet we ignore that scripture.

The whole problem with the tongues issue is that too many Pentecostals make this a salvation issue or try to force others to believe they have to speak in tongues. This is not right true but Tongues are Biblical and if we don't want the gift then we need to leave it alone.

As Gamaliel said Be careful lest we be warring with God.

I also have known of Baptists who have spoken in tongues etc and Methodists and other non pentecostals.

 

[Carly33]

The sign gifts were usefull to the apostles to verify that they indeed spoke for God. We have the New Testament in its entirety and have no need to prove we speak for God other than to quote scripture,and give the reference.

We can't add to the knowledge God gave us in his word or the prophecies therin....

We have a complete revelation, and all that is left is to have FAITH, and practice LOVE and continue in HOPE.

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by hrhema:

Paul said If I speak in the Tongues of Men and Angels in the same chapter.

So when did he move mountains and offer his body to be burned?

Originally posted by hrhema:
Also he spoke of groanings that cannot be uttered. He spoke of the spirit praying through men.

If it can't be uttered then it can't be a tongue.

Tongues were always known languages

Originally posted by hrhema:
Paul did not say tongues would cease until he that is perfect comes. Well we all know that is Jesus and he has not come again.

This has been covered several times. We do not all know that it is Jesus. Jesus is never referred to as That.

Originally posted by hrhema:
The version I posted at the beginning says they will cease at the end time. The end time did not happen at the deaths of the apostles or 100 AD.

Don't know what version you are talking about but Paul says they will cease when that which is perfect is come, not the end of time. Read through the thread to see how that means the scripture not Jesus. That which is perfect is the scriptures.

Originally posted by hrhema:
Paul himself said he spoke in tongues more than
anyone else. Yet we ignore that scripture.

I don't ignore it, I just don't take that to mean that we are supposed to speak them too. He also says but he woud rather us prophesy. Tongue users ignore that one.

Originally posted by hrhema:
This is not right true but Tongues are Biblical and if we don't want the gift then we need to leave it alone.

If someone claims to have the gift and doesn't use it scripturally I am not to just "leave it alone". They need to be corrected.

Originally posted by hrhema:
As Gamaliel said Be careful lest we be warring with God.

As the Bible says we should test the Spirits to see if they are from God.

~Lorelei

 

[Sularis]

Regretfully yes

I know personally - the earthly aspects of tongues exist

As to the heavenly babbling aspects - regretfully both are tied if one exists the other exists

 

[Graceforever]

Originally posted by hrhema:

Paul himself said he spoke in tongues more than
anyone else. Yet we ignore that scripture.

Indeed he said that, Paul probably traveled more than any disciple that Jesus had…did. Paul was a well-educated man, which was one reason that Christ chose him, among other things… In Paul’s travels he needed the gift of speaking in other tongues, unlike Billy Graham, Paul didn’t have the need for an interpreter…

BTW, how come it is that Benny Henn and other tongue speakers need interpreters on their foreign tours? Why doesn’t the spirit speak to everyone in their own language? Paul let the spirit speak through him, but when that which was perfect came, Paul said, that which is in part would be done away….

It’s important to note that the New Testament was not written when Paul went about preaching… God gave them extra gifts, such as speaking in the tongues (as well as other miracles, it was proof that God was with Paul)…. Today we have the word as our only proof…. It’s a more sure word that we have today… It was greater than it was with the miracles which Paul done in Gods name…. Amazing, the New Testament (when it went out to stand together with the Old Testament), a more sure word than miracles began....It still is today, thank God….
God be the glory….. Peace…. Gary

[ April 09, 2002, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: Graceforever ]

 

[Graceforever]

If any are sick among you let him call for the elders of the Church, and the prayer of faith will heal the sick and if they have committed any sins, they will be forgiven them… God still works miracles in the churches, but where there are tongues, they will cease…..

Blessed are you Thomas because you have seen (this miracle) and believe, but blessed are those who have not seen, yet believed....

Peace, Gary

[ April 14, 2002, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: Graceforever ]