Steven2006
New Member
I believe God can heal.
I believe that God can answer prayers.
I believe that God can answer prayers.
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Do You Believe in the Power of Prayer to Heal?
- Thread starter Deacon
- Start date
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Yes, Absolutely!
Jas 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Do, I believe this is an absolute? No.
The bottom line is Faith, and God's response to that Faith.
But, in James we also see a factor of Obedience, and that of Standing in the Gap for one another.
Eze 22:30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.
Too often, at least in Charismatic Circles, the person requesting prayer is the target of blame for a lack of healing.
When in fact it is the Elders, who have been called, that are refusing to stand in the Gap in Love for the individual.
But, let God Heal him, and see who takes credit for it!
God responds to Faith.
Doubt is the Lack of Faith.
But, as Darkness is the Absence of Light, and Cold is the Absence of Heat, so, too, doubt does not have substance of it's own and can not overcome any True Faith no matter how small that Faith may be.
Consider a block of really Good Natural Swiss Cheese when you cut a thin slice off, do you taste the holes in the Cheese, or do you Taste the Cheese around the holes?
Interesting part of this analogy is that like that swiss cheese, we stand up much better when we stand together so that the holes in my faith are covered by areas of faith in others where they have no "holes".
And, we *all* have holes in our faith.
Jas 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Do, I believe this is an absolute? No.
The bottom line is Faith, and God's response to that Faith.
But, in James we also see a factor of Obedience, and that of Standing in the Gap for one another.
Eze 22:30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.
Too often, at least in Charismatic Circles, the person requesting prayer is the target of blame for a lack of healing.
When in fact it is the Elders, who have been called, that are refusing to stand in the Gap in Love for the individual.
But, let God Heal him, and see who takes credit for it!
God responds to Faith.
Doubt is the Lack of Faith.
But, as Darkness is the Absence of Light, and Cold is the Absence of Heat, so, too, doubt does not have substance of it's own and can not overcome any True Faith no matter how small that Faith may be.
Consider a block of really Good Natural Swiss Cheese when you cut a thin slice off, do you taste the holes in the Cheese, or do you Taste the Cheese around the holes?
Interesting part of this analogy is that like that swiss cheese, we stand up much better when we stand together so that the holes in my faith are covered by areas of faith in others where they have no "holes".
And, we *all* have holes in our faith.
Wow, this thread is an eye-popper for me. I would never have been able to guess at some of the responses I've seen.
God has the power to heal, and we have those in my church who can testify to that and they have.
For those of you who claim that you can go to doctors, you are correct. However, not going to a doctor is a personal choice - a freedom that all Americans have.
Some seem to indicate that a person should be procecuted for failure to see a doctor. Does that mean that those of you who believe that also are sponsors of Obamacare? Once we can be convicted of failure to take a kid to a doctor, we can also be convicted of failure to have medical insurance for our families and certain-sized bank accounts before we are permitted to have children. Is that where we are headed?
When did anyone decide that nobody is allowed to live on faith and prayer any more? Is the freedom to do that gone now?
God has the power to heal, and we have those in my church who can testify to that and they have.
For those of you who claim that you can go to doctors, you are correct. However, not going to a doctor is a personal choice - a freedom that all Americans have.
Some seem to indicate that a person should be procecuted for failure to see a doctor. Does that mean that those of you who believe that also are sponsors of Obamacare? Once we can be convicted of failure to take a kid to a doctor, we can also be convicted of failure to have medical insurance for our families and certain-sized bank accounts before we are permitted to have children. Is that where we are headed?
When did anyone decide that nobody is allowed to live on faith and prayer any more? Is the freedom to do that gone now?
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Here's the issue, IMHO, for parents to deny Medical Treatment for their minor children is a crime.
Unless, they have a Specific Word from God for them for this Specific Instance.
To deny treatment merely because you are "clinging" to a Scripture that itimates God can and (possibly) will heal is, IMHO, unconscionable.
I, too, have seen *MANY* healed. Some spontaneoously during worship, other because we cared enough to gather around and put ourselves on the line before God and pleaded their case when they were too exhausted to do so themselves.
The false prophet that merely tells you to hang on a little longer, and doesn't invest the passion of his own prayers and tears is doing you a disservice.
Back when I was allergic to bee stings, my granny took me to our little white-haired preacher's home and he prayed, with passion and tears, the swelling was gone before we could get home. (And, he didn't ask for a donation either!)
Faith can be a fragile thing, we can either build and encourage one another to believe God or be a wet blanket, which can be as debilitating as water boarding.
It would be *great* to be able to write a definitive treatise as to why God sometimes heals and sometimes doesn't.
But, that is not for us to know.
It's ours to have Faith, and Pray for one another.
Unless, they have a Specific Word from God for them for this Specific Instance.
To deny treatment merely because you are "clinging" to a Scripture that itimates God can and (possibly) will heal is, IMHO, unconscionable.
I, too, have seen *MANY* healed. Some spontaneoously during worship, other because we cared enough to gather around and put ourselves on the line before God and pleaded their case when they were too exhausted to do so themselves.
The false prophet that merely tells you to hang on a little longer, and doesn't invest the passion of his own prayers and tears is doing you a disservice.
Back when I was allergic to bee stings, my granny took me to our little white-haired preacher's home and he prayed, with passion and tears, the swelling was gone before we could get home. (And, he didn't ask for a donation either!)
Faith can be a fragile thing, we can either build and encourage one another to believe God or be a wet blanket, which can be as debilitating as water boarding.
It would be *great* to be able to write a definitive treatise as to why God sometimes heals and sometimes doesn't.
But, that is not for us to know.
It's ours to have Faith, and Pray for one another.
Why was Luke a physician?
] We lost that freedom a few years ago. One example http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/parents-in-prayer-death-jailed-1799006.html.
Socialism, communism, and any other "ism's have been eating away at our freedom for years. Seatbelts, smoking, fur coats, burning trash, cutting down trees, burning wood in fireplaces, and freedoms are gone. If you have a truck with a "running board", can one ride on it today without getting a ticket; ride in the back of a pick-up?
Don't look now, but they are working to do away with the middle class.
glfredrick
New Member
>Socialism, communism, and any other "ism's have been eating away at our freedom for years. Seatbelts, smoking, fur coats, burning trash, cutting down trees, burning wood in fireplaces, and freedoms are gone. If you have a truck with a "running board", can one ride on it today without getting a ticket; ride in the back of a pick-up?
Yes, it IS futile to pass laws against being stupid.
Yes, it IS futile to pass laws against being stupid.
glfredrick
New Member
<Oh, why am I even bothering...>
Billwald, is there a stopping point, or should we progress all the way into full socialism? Just wondering. You seem enamoured of the process and prospects. Perhaps you are in a position where you stand to gain something from being a party member. Worked well for those who were "in" in the USSR, Germany, and China...
What are some examples of what these people claim to have been healed of? Please answer that; but I will take a shortcut to the question I nearly always ask someone who says something like that: Has anyone with a missing arm or leg miraculously grown a new one?
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Why is that the only sign of healing?? To my knowledge, God has chosen to not do that sort of healing but instead has manifested Himself in many other miraculous healings. I've seen it MANY times in my years as a believer.
I definitely believe in prayer and healing ... but I do not believe in not going for medical treatment in a case like this. Isn't healing through medical help also an answer to prayer?
Alcott asked:
I was healed of a toe joint problem that has caused me pain for years. Hands were laid on me and people prayed. Frankly I did not expect anything to happen. Fifteen minutes later I realized that joint was no longer hurting. That was 4 years ago and so far no more of that pain.
Why did God heal my joint. I have no idea when others need and needed healing more than I and did not receive it. God works in mysterious ways.
Alcott asked:
I was healed of a toe joint problem that has caused me pain for years. Hands were laid on me and people prayed. Frankly I did not expect anything to happen. Fifteen minutes later I realized that joint was no longer hurting. That was 4 years ago and so far no more of that pain.
Why did God heal my joint. I have no idea when others need and needed healing more than I and did not receive it. God works in mysterious ways.
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SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Oh, I don't know... But, the Kathryn Kuhlman Foundation still has many examples of God's healing Power. Kathryn was a real stickler for _NOT_ adding a healing to the statistics unless there was before and after medical documentation.
I saw a man with multiple slipped disks struggle up to the altar and walk away unassisted. Went back to work the next day servicing aircraft. And, oh, there was lots of x-rays in this case!
I saw a man with stomach cancer get prayed for and the eat a major McDonald's meal, with no ill effects. (Even without having a large part of his digestive track removed, *that* was a miracle!
)That's just the two that popped to my forebrain.
Look, I know *us* Charismatics get really carried away with Divine Healing. But, I also know that God is not afraid of documentation, either.
I was "underfoot" during Oral Roberts Crusades in Norfolk, VA, back before he went off the deep end. I was also underfoot when Kathryn Kuhlman was in town.
My Granny dragged me along with her. All my life I have seen things that refuse logical explanation.
But, I also know that even if I could show irrefutable medical documentation there are many who simply are not able to accept it.
I guess it goes to how deeply one really believes Jesus is involved with us as individuals, and whether the effectual fervent prayer of a Righteous man avails anything at all.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Hmm, this reminds me of a story that I've heard more than one person tell:
Bubba is standing on the roof of his house. The creek done rose up and surrounded him, leaving him no escape. So he calls out to God for rescue.
Pretty soon a fella in a boat comes by and offers assistance. Bubba says no, God is gonna rescue me, so the fella goes on. (sound familiar yet?)
Bubba sits there in the pouring rain, waiting on God and a flash of lighting reveals a bigger boat headed toward him. Bubba waves it off cause God is gonna rescue him.
A couple of hours later, the water is almost to eaves of the house and helicopter flies over and tries to get Bubba off his roof, but Bubba refuses cause God is gonna rescue him.
A short time later, Bubba finds himself standing before the throne, looking around in surprise. "I thought you were gonna rescue me God?"
God says, "I sent two boats and helicopter, what more did you want?"
God has allowed us great medical resources in this country. What more did these people want? Take your kid to the doctor, or pay the price for your neglect!
Bubba is standing on the roof of his house. The creek done rose up and surrounded him, leaving him no escape. So he calls out to God for rescue.
Pretty soon a fella in a boat comes by and offers assistance. Bubba says no, God is gonna rescue me, so the fella goes on. (sound familiar yet?)
Bubba sits there in the pouring rain, waiting on God and a flash of lighting reveals a bigger boat headed toward him. Bubba waves it off cause God is gonna rescue him.
A couple of hours later, the water is almost to eaves of the house and helicopter flies over and tries to get Bubba off his roof, but Bubba refuses cause God is gonna rescue him.
A short time later, Bubba finds himself standing before the throne, looking around in surprise. "I thought you were gonna rescue me God?"
God says, "I sent two boats and helicopter, what more did you want?"
God has allowed us great medical resources in this country. What more did these people want? Take your kid to the doctor, or pay the price for your neglect!
glfredrick
New Member
Amen! Glad we agree on something...
I recall an old Minereth/Meyer program on Christian radio. Their statement was, "When stranded in the middle of the ocean in a life raft, pray to God and row to shore."
There are a couple principles found in Scripture that I'm not sure a lot of people have discovered. At least, the common things they say indicate that they haven't.
First is, "God will never lay on you more than you can bear." Hogwash... God will lay on you God-sized problems and issues that only HE can bear. The harder you try, the more you will ultimately be crushed. He intends for us to look to Him.
Second is, "I'll do this or that as soon as God gives me the power." Again, hogwash... In the Scriptures, God appears when people put their foot in the water. Faith is a gift of God, but He expects us to exercise it. That's what faith is all about -- not "sight," as in, "I can now do this becasuse God has given me the power..." But rather, "I can do this, and as I go, God will empower me."
We have a woman in our church who donated her kidney to her aunt. She did not recover well and was now having shortness of breath and was seeing many doctors for this. She was finally able to get to church last week, 6 weeks after the surgery but she was clearly struggling and not well. My husband went into the kitchen to ask for a small cup of cooking oil and they were happy to give it to him (little did they know what it was used for) and the entire congregation stood around her and prayed for her, annointing her with the oil. Since last Sunday, she has improved greatly and was even able to do the sign language interpretation this Sunday at our home church's Christmas drama!! The healing has been amazing and the doctors are floored. We're not. :godisgood:
Because just psyching somebody into ignoring their pain is not true healing. That's how too many jokers on television become filthy rich.
Quite so, apparently. How pain comes and goes is a mystery. But that is all you say, that your toe joint was quickly-- 3 hours-- pain free. How long was it before that event and after that xrays were taken, and what did they show?
Unless you were the one who examined him, you don't know that he had multiple slipped disks. I have had slipped disks before, and it doens't take that long for the pain to clear up. Again, this is, at best, a case of being psyched.
I don't say what I say here from simply uninvolved cynicism. I used to watch those guys on television and gradually came to see the fraud and egomania they depend on. But there was once I got a notion during a time I was having back trouble. I wondered if I turned on one of those programs and they used that "word of knowledge" nonsense that "somebody out there is suffering from back trouble," if it would produce that reaction in me. It actually worked. They said that-- among people having stomach trouble, struggling to quit smoking, and a few more. Somehow it can have a significant effect on the human psyche to have your problem mentioned as if they really know you. But what they're really after is thousands of people to respond to those comon infirmitieis being called out and start sending in their money. So even if you know the 'healing ministries' are based on greed, fraud, and psycology, if you coincidentally hit it at the right time, it can still work.
But if it actually happened that someone with a missing arm or leg grew a new one inf ront of your eyes, then that would be convincing, not some unlearned sucker being psyched into a feeling better, which is done easily enough.
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SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Alcott, I would say that you can't be convinced.
Because even if you personally saw an arm restored.
I sincerely believe you would think you'd been hypnotized.
Because even if you personally saw an arm restored.
I sincerely believe you would think you'd been hypnotized.