Do you believe, once saved always saved

[Istherenotacause]

Qoute from James Reed: Again, I will reiterate, we are not against a man preaching the gospel of Christ. What we are against is, basically, the reason behind these missions...to save people. Since we don't believe in this doctrine, we will not be sending any missionaries to teach the heathen nations how to get saved.

No wonder the Primitives are dying out, they preach "another " Jesus than the One who said, "Go ye unto ALL the nations, teaching them and baptizing them in the name of the Father , the Son, and the Holy Ghost".

The "heathen" in those "heathen nations" can be saved, but the nations won't be.

You say that you were "saved" from the foundations of the world, how is it you came to this knowledge without a missionary? Oh that's right, you were "predestinated" to believe, that sir, is no doctrine found in the Bible. You will find it in the writings of John Calvin, but I don't see where the Lord prosubstantiated the Gospel to be under the authority of John Calvin or James Reed. it must also be that people are predestinated to refute the teachings of John Calvin to reveal the Truth concerning the Gospel as well!

In His Holy Service, (and definitely NOT a Calvinist!)

Brother Ricky

 

[Bro. James Reed]

who said I was a Calvinist? I'm a Primitive Baptist. Who said the PBs are dying out? God's True Primitive Baptist Church will ALWAYS be here! We don't entice people with scare tactics just so our membership will grow...like some people do.

BTW, I feel sorry for anybody who feels they have God's power. To save people was the work of God and Him alone. You're right, I was predestinated to believe what I do. Just like you were predestined not to believe the truth.(ohhh, gut shot.

)

I was regenerated by the will of God, not by any missionary...preacher...or anyone else! It was a gift that God alone placed inside my heart. I was not taught to love God, He gave me His love. Thankfully, I don't have to live my life wondering how many people I could have saved from hell. I could have saved no one...and neither can you or anyone else.

We believe because God revealed HIMSELF to us. I am just sorry that there are so many out there who do not share the peace that the PB church does.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Sounds like he predestined something, huh?

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Plain English...he predestinated us into the adoption of His family. We were His before the foundation of the world. And, neither John Calvin NOR James Reed wrote this. Dispute it now.

 

[Istherenotacause]

Originally posted by Bro. James Reed:
who said I was a Calvinist? I'm a Primitive Baptist. Who said the PBs are dying out? God's True Primitive Baptist Church will ALWAYS be here! We don't entice people with scare tactics just so our membership will grow...like some people do.

BTW, I feel sorry for anybody who feels they have God's power. To save people was the work of God and Him alone. You're right, I was predestinated to believe what I do. Just like you were predestined not to believe the truth.(ohhh, gut shot.

)

I was regenerated by the will of God, not by any missionary...preacher...or anyone else! It was a gift that God alone placed inside my heart. I was not taught to love God, He gave me His love. Thankfully, I don't have to live my life wondering how many people I could have saved from hell. I could have saved no one...and neither can you or anyone else.

We believe because God revealed HIMSELF to us. I am just sorry that there are so many out there who do not share the peace that the PB church does.

Primitive Baptist are Calvinistic.

I never said I could save anybody.

The LORD is the only ONE who can save anybody.

I'm not really concerned what you boast about "we believe" and how you are "just sorry" others don't share in the "peace" yall have.

 

[Istherenotacause]

Originally posted by Bro. James Reed:
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Sounds like he predestined something, huh?

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Plain English...he predestinated us into the adoption of His family. We were His before the foundation of the world. And, neither John Calvin NOR James Reed wrote this. Dispute it now.

You just proved time and time, over and overe again, that the doctrine of Calvinism is completely taken out of context of scripture.

If you are adopted as you so erroneously imply by those scriptures as being saved from before the foudations of the world, then just whose family, and whose child were you before this adoption?

Seems there are some really BIG flaws in your John Calvin theology.

Like the way you skipped the first three verse in Ephesians 2 to try and prove predestination as something other than what the Bible clearly shows:

2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this
world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit
that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the
lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;
and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

You see,intimes past, (that would be ALL inclusive as during the foundations of the world and before) your conversation, as well as anyone who gets saved, was as a sinner in need of grace. You too fulfilled the desires of the flesh and mind, which is enmity with God. Also you were not always a child of God, but you were a child of wrath, EVEN AS OTHERS!

Oh! NO! The Lord has used His Word to shoot your theology ALL to pieces!

God is a quickening Spirit, if you are saved, it is because you were dead in trespasses and sins and responded to the call of God to repentence and saved by His grace. Without the penalty for sin, death, you could NEVER have been given that grace that saves. If as you say you were saved from before the foundations of the world, then Bless God, what were you saved from? Seems to me if you are saved, then you were not saved on the firsthand, so there you go, bite the bullet you loaded your gun with and endure until the end!

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Actually, I didn't skip Ephesians 2. If you'll notice, I quoted from Ephesians 1.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Okay, now we're getting into the foreknowledge of God. He knew, before He had ever made us, that we would transgress the law. So, in His mind, we had already become sinners. Now, in His great wisdom and mercy, He chose out some of us to be brought into the adoption of His family through the blood of Christ. He had seen everything that would happen, with Adam, with Moses, with Christ, and even with James. So, He made a plan to atone for the sins of those He had yet to even make.

Therefore, to Him, even though we were not yet made, we had already transgressed the law, walking according to the fleshly world. But now, since Christ died for us, the Father sees us through the Son. We are made perfect in him. So, in the Son, we are walking according to the right path, although we may not always actually do so.

Of course, you've also got the timely aspect of this scripture. When we are saved temporally. i.e. when God actually places His truths in our hearts. This is when we are regenerated. So, before we were regenerated, we did walk according to the flesh, but since God has made Himself manifest to us, we no longer want the things of the world.

We are holy in the sight of God through the blood of the Son, and we are holy in the sight of men through our good works.

Let me add this. Primitive Baptists are not Calvinistic. John Calvin was Baptistic, since we existed before he did.

Bro. james

 

[Istherenotacause]

Originally posted by Bro. James Reed:
Actually, I didn't skip Ephesians 2. If you'll notice, I quoted from Ephesians 1.

You've skipped Ephesians 2 all your life. You've also applied Ephesians 1 out of the context.

 

[WillRain]

Originally posted by Alcott:

Originally posted by Mitsy:
None of us can ever be good enough on our own. We will continue to sin - even after accepting Christ.

I John 3:9 -- No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This verse, which teaches the opposite of what you said, does seem to support the 'eternal security' position... but only if the proof is that one does not-- cannot-- sin.

Context, friend, context.

I John 1:6-10-
6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[2] sin.
8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

I John 2:1-4
1My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
3We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

I John 2:19-20
19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.

Thus the old but true canard "They weren't really saved in the first place" from which arises my comment IF saved, always saved.

I John 3: 1-10
1How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure.
4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

Perhaps what is intended is a distinction between willfull, unrepentant sin, and human weakness. I seem to remember even Paul confessed in Romans 7 to such a problem?

Surely one would not argue that he lost his salvation when he "did the things he would not"....would they?

 

[Istherenotacause]

Originally posted by Bro. James Reed:
Okay, now we're getting into the foreknowledge of God. He knew, before He had ever made us, that we would transgress the law. So, in His mind, we had already become sinners. Now, in His great wisdom and mercy, He chose out some of us to be brought into the adoption of His family through the blood of Christ. He had seen everything that would happen, with Adam, with Moses, with Christ, and even with James. So, He made a plan to atone for the sins of those He had yet to even make.

Therefore, to Him, even though we were not yet made, we had already transgressed the law, walking according to the fleshly world. But now, since Christ died for us, the Father sees us through the Son. We are made perfect in him. So, in the Son, we are walking according to the right path, although we may not always actually do so.

Of course, you've also got the timely aspect of this scripture. When we are saved temporally. i.e. when God actually places His truths in our hearts. This is when we are regenerated. So, before we were regenerated, we did walk according to the flesh, but since God has made Himself manifest to us, we no longer want the things of the world.

We are holy in the sight of God through the blood of the Son, and we are holy in the sight of men through our good works.

Let me add this. Primitive Baptists are not Calvinistic. John Calvin was Baptistic, since we existed before he did.

Bro. james

Well I'm glad you've got that all figured out, now go and remove all those "whosever will's" out of your Bible and tell the world God lied when He inspired Peter to write II Peter 3:9.
John Calvin just may have been influenced by the primitive Baptist theology, but both go hand in hand and you cannot deny that. The biggest problem you have right now is you cannot deny that Jesus Himself said, "Whosoever believeth" hsall have everlasting life. Now you can "limit atone" and "irrestible grace" your self to death, but you'll NEVER get around those "whosoever will". Of course it takes the Eternal God to make the first move, and He has already, but it's our responsibility to make the 2nd.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

You've skipped Ephesians 2 all your life.

I didn't realize you had known me that long.

All your doing now is slinging mud, so I will no longer post to you. Don't bother posting anything else, as I will not even look back on this thread.

All I can say is, I am glad it was not my choice, because, like YOU and the rest of EVERYBODY, I would have loused things up just like Adam and Eve.

There is none good, no not one. None of us would choose to be good without the love of God already dwelling in us.

I don't doubt that everyone who has, what you call "accepted" Christ, will have everlasting life. All I am saying is that He accepted us first, and He places the love in our hearts to want Him as well. All who believe will be saved. I would say yes, if it is true belief that Christ died for them, but that belief is given to us by God...it is not a choice that we make.

God Bless. Bro. James

 

[atestring]

In the last days there will be a great falling away. Will those that fall away be those who are saved? Will they be people that only thought that they were saved? If they aren't really saved can they really fall away?

 

[Istherenotacause]

Originally posted by Bro. James Reed:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> You've skipped Ephesians 2 all your life.

I didn't realize you had known me that long.

me:Anyone who believes they were saved before the foundations of the world and everyone else was created to go to hell HAS skipped over Ephesians 2 ALL their life. You've been taught a false doctrine.

James:All your doing now is slinging mud,

me:No I'm not, I'm trying to get you to see the truth

James: so I will no longer post to you.

me:Then why did you carry on the next 3 paragraphs?

Jameson't bother posting anything else, as I will not even look back on this thread.

me:I believe I've heard that one before, Right Gib?

James:All I can say is, I am glad it was not my choice, because, like YOU and the rest of EVERYBODY, I would have loused things up just like Adam and Eve.

me:I never said God didn't choose and I've never said it was all up to us to choose, BUT we are given the choice, God chose to save sinners, we must choose to admit we are sinners in need of the Saviour

James:There is none good, no not one.

me:I agree

James: None of us would choose to be good without the love of God already dwelling in us.

me: WRONG!I think you've missed the doctrine of total depravity. We don't have a little spark of good in us that God has to ignite. Where in the Bible do you find that to back up your statement.

James:I don't doubt that everyone who has, what you call "accepted" Christ, will have everlasting life.

me:Me too!

James:All I am saying is that He accepted us first, and He places the love in our hearts to want Him as well. All who believe will be saved.

me:Even the devils who believe and tremble at His word? NOT!

James:I would say yes, if it is true belief that Christ died for them, but that belief is given to us by God...it is not a choice that we make.

me:I believed Christ died and rose again for all men, but that didn't get me saved and it didn't change my life. What did change me was when I bowed in my heart to Him begging for Him to save me, and guess what? HE DID! December 18, 1992!

What about you? Got a time and a place you KNOW the Lord moved in your heart and saved your everdying soul? Has there been a change?

Never hurts anyone to "check-up" on their salvation, can't doubt what you haven't got!

Can't lose what's not in your control to keep!

James:God Bless. Bro. James </font>[/QUOTE]me:God Bless you to,

In His Holy Service,

Brother Ricky

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by atestring:
In the last days there will be a great falling away. Will those that fall away be those who are saved? Will they be people that only thought that they were saved? If they aren't really saved can they really fall away?

any comments?

 

[Willow 2]

atestring i believe what it is meaning in my opinnion only is....the people are saved & they wonder off the narrow path that they where on.. & now they have fallen away onto the wide path..

But now it also could mean the mind set salvation also...I will look this up if you give me the book & chapter you found it in..& then i could look it up & give you a better opinnion of what i believe it is talking about..

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by Willow 2:
atestring i believe what it is meaning in my opinnion only is....the people are saved & they wonder off the narrow path that they where on.. & now they have fallen away onto the wide path..

But now it also could mean the mind set salvation also...I will look this up if you give me the book & chapter you found it in..& then i could look it up & give you a better opinnion of what i believe it is talking about..

2 Thessalonians 2:3

 

[Dr. Bob]

Originally posted by atestring:
In the last days there will be a great falling away. Will those that fall away be those who are saved? Will they be people that only thought that they were saved? If they aren't really saved can they really fall away?

Again, I would ask you to consider what John taught in AD90 after the church era "matured" and this became a real problem:

Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
They went out from us, but
they did not really belong to us. For if
they had belonged to us,
they would have remained with us; but
their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.

 

[langelaarus]

what do you think of this:in Hos:9vers 10-15

When i found Israel,it was like finding grapes in the desert;when i saw your fathers,it was seeing the early fruit on the fig tree. But when they came to baalpeor,they consecrated themselves to that shameful idol and became as vile as the thing they loved..... Because of all their wickednes in Gilgal, I HATED THEM THERE. Because of there SINFUL deeds, I will drive them out of my house. I WILL NO LONGER LOVE THEM; all their leaders are rebellious

in Heb 12:15 Sin can defile

Jam 3:6 Sin can corrupt

2 Pet 2:20,21 enslave us again

Mt 15:19,20 and make a person unclean

when i read this scriptures on thing is clear for me and that is that you can not say osas you can lose your salvation if you chose to live a sinful lifestile again.

 

[Willow 2]

Atestring it was what i said first but in a little different words....but 2 thessalonians 2:3 in short means the people have turn there backs on the church & they only have a mind set salvation & not a heart set salvation....

[ June 05, 2003, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: Willow 2 ]

 

[archie]

A person cannot lose their salvation. John 12.28 Eccl says there is not a just man upon the earth that doeth good and sinneth not. The flesh will sin. We are to bring it into subjection. Not one will perish according to Jesus prayer in John ch 17.