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Do you believe, once saved always saved
- Thread starter Willow 2
- Start date
BrotherJesse
New Member
I just rededicated my life to HIM yesterday. So yes, you can loose your salvation.
BrotherJesse
New Member
Could you say that in simple english Major B?
Baptist in Richmond
Active Member
rene writes (a week or so ago):
>>what about backsliders,they have fallen back in
>>there old habbits sinning like crazy do you
>>realy think that God will say welcome, thank
>>you for once making a decicion for me the rest
>>of your life you did nothing for me aqtually
>>you lived as a adulterer a lyer and a thief but
>>thats ok because you made that decission 50
>>years ago. [sic]
Yes, I believe He would. That doesn't mean that the backsliders don't have to give account for what they did/didn't do.
>>i believe that a christian needs to be worth
>>its salvation and you need to work hard for
>>it.living a holy live giving Glory to God. [sic]
This is completely false. There is NOTHING that you can do to win salvation. Let me be very clear about that: there is NOTHING that you can do to win salvation. By NOTHING, I mean NOTHING. Salvation is a gift, which means that one has to accept the fact that there is NOTHING that can be done, and that they must trust in God and accept His Gift. What could you possibly do to compliment what Christ did on the cross? The word that is used in I John 2:2 is propitiation. Quite frankly, I find this comment very disturbing.
>>when i read this scriptures on thing is clear
>>for me and that is that you can not
>>say osas you can lose your salvation if you
>>chose to live a sinful lifestile again. [sic]
Perhaps you should read the Scriptures again.......
>>what about backsliders,they have fallen back in
>>there old habbits sinning like crazy do you
>>realy think that God will say welcome, thank
>>you for once making a decicion for me the rest
>>of your life you did nothing for me aqtually
>>you lived as a adulterer a lyer and a thief but
>>thats ok because you made that decission 50
>>years ago. [sic]
Yes, I believe He would. That doesn't mean that the backsliders don't have to give account for what they did/didn't do.
>>i believe that a christian needs to be worth
>>its salvation and you need to work hard for
>>it.living a holy live giving Glory to God. [sic]
This is completely false. There is NOTHING that you can do to win salvation. Let me be very clear about that: there is NOTHING that you can do to win salvation. By NOTHING, I mean NOTHING. Salvation is a gift, which means that one has to accept the fact that there is NOTHING that can be done, and that they must trust in God and accept His Gift. What could you possibly do to compliment what Christ did on the cross? The word that is used in I John 2:2 is propitiation. Quite frankly, I find this comment very disturbing.
>>when i read this scriptures on thing is clear
>>for me and that is that you can not
>>say osas you can lose your salvation if you
>>chose to live a sinful lifestile again. [sic]
Perhaps you should read the Scriptures again.......
Matthew 16:24
New Member
Jesus died to save His people FROM THEIR SINS--"Thou shalt call his name Jesus for he shall save his people from their sins". Modern day evangelists emphasize a Saviour from hell, but the Bible emphasizes a Saviour from sin--Read Romans chapters 6,7, and 8 CONSECUTIVELY. Jesus will save you from the GUILT and POWER of sin. The word says that sin shall have NO DOMINION over you--Jesus will have the dominion over you. The blood of Jesus is powerful enough to save you from the shame of sin. You become a new creature--not the same old one living lukewarm and careless under the power of the devil. If you taste of the heavenly gift and go back to the world, it is better that you had not known the way of life in the first place (II Pet 2:21).
The Bible saith not in vain to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. If you abide in the true vine, you have nothing to worry about. If you are carnal, you should be VERY worried.
2 Peter 2:20 For if AFTER they have escaped the pollutions of the world
through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again
entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is WORSE with them than
the beginning.
2:21 For it had been BETTER for them NOT to have known the way of
righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy
commandment delivered unto them.
2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog
is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her
wallowing in the mire.
Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, *brethren*, lest there be in any of you an evil
heart of unbelief, in *DEPARTING from the living God*.
3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of
you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, *IF* we hold the beginning of
our confidence stedfast unto the end.
Hebrews 6:15 And so, AFTER he [Abraham] had patiently endured, he
obtained the promise.
Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but HE
THAT ENDURETH TO THE END SHALL BE SAVED.
No need for anyone to tell me that Hebrews and Matthew are for
the Jews. All the word is for me.
The Bible saith not in vain to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. If you abide in the true vine, you have nothing to worry about. If you are carnal, you should be VERY worried.
2 Peter 2:20 For if AFTER they have escaped the pollutions of the world
through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again
entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is WORSE with them than
the beginning.
2:21 For it had been BETTER for them NOT to have known the way of
righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy
commandment delivered unto them.
2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog
is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her
wallowing in the mire.
Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, *brethren*, lest there be in any of you an evil
heart of unbelief, in *DEPARTING from the living God*.
3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of
you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, *IF* we hold the beginning of
our confidence stedfast unto the end.
Hebrews 6:15 And so, AFTER he [Abraham] had patiently endured, he
obtained the promise.
Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but HE
THAT ENDURETH TO THE END SHALL BE SAVED.
No need for anyone to tell me that Hebrews and Matthew are for
the Jews. All the word is for me.
Baptist in Richmond
Active Member
Originally posted by Matthew 16:24:
>>The Bible saith not in vain to work out your
>>salvation with fear and trembling. If you abide
>>in the true vine, you have nothing to worry
>>about. If you are carnal, you should be VERY
>>worried.
Are you saying that grace alone cannot save us?
>>The Bible saith not in vain to work out your
>>salvation with fear and trembling. If you abide
>>in the true vine, you have nothing to worry
>>about. If you are carnal, you should be VERY
>>worried.
Are you saying that grace alone cannot save us?
Matthew 16:24
New Member
Baptist in Richmond
Active Member
Originally posted by Matthew 16:24:
>>Why would you question obedience to the King of glory?
>>Does not His word say obedience is better than sacrifice. [sic]
Please provide us with the date/time/thread where I questioned "obedience to the King of Glory." In other words, please give me the specific post where I said this. If not, then you should read Exodus 20:16.
>>TOO MANY are deceived of the devil into thinking "obedience
>>is a work". Only THE DEVIL would inject that doctrine in the
>>church and only THE DEVIL would keep your mind going on a
>>rat wheel about it. Any doctrine that does not lead you closer
>>to Christ is of THE DEVIL.
Ephesians 2:8-9 says it better than I ever could. If you are saying that you have to do/say/act/work/obey (take your pick) ANYTHING, then you don't believe that Christ was the propitiation for our sins. Because you still have not answered the question, I will ask one more time: what can YOU do to augment what Christ did on Calvary?
Based on your comments, I can only deduce that my salvation differs from yours. I believe that there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING I can do to save my soul. I am included in the "all" written in Romans 3:23. I believe that because Christ paid the price for my sins, and because I believe in Him, then I will have everlasting life. To quote the group Jars of Clay: "If I would follow and believe, with faith like a child."
If I am placing my total faith in Jesus Christ, and in Him alone, I am as close to Him as one could possibly get......
>>Why would you question obedience to the King of glory?
>>Does not His word say obedience is better than sacrifice. [sic]
Please provide us with the date/time/thread where I questioned "obedience to the King of Glory." In other words, please give me the specific post where I said this. If not, then you should read Exodus 20:16.
>>TOO MANY are deceived of the devil into thinking "obedience
>>is a work". Only THE DEVIL would inject that doctrine in the
>>church and only THE DEVIL would keep your mind going on a
>>rat wheel about it. Any doctrine that does not lead you closer
>>to Christ is of THE DEVIL.
Ephesians 2:8-9 says it better than I ever could. If you are saying that you have to do/say/act/work/obey (take your pick) ANYTHING, then you don't believe that Christ was the propitiation for our sins. Because you still have not answered the question, I will ask one more time: what can YOU do to augment what Christ did on Calvary?
Based on your comments, I can only deduce that my salvation differs from yours. I believe that there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING I can do to save my soul. I am included in the "all" written in Romans 3:23. I believe that because Christ paid the price for my sins, and because I believe in Him, then I will have everlasting life. To quote the group Jars of Clay: "If I would follow and believe, with faith like a child."
If I am placing my total faith in Jesus Christ, and in Him alone, I am as close to Him as one could possibly get......
Graceforever
New Member
I believe that God promised me everlasting life, so yea, I believe in OSAS…… Grace is THE ONLY GOSPEL that I know……. There is not another…
Gal. 1: 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Gal. 1: 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Matthew 16:24
New Member
BiR, sorry about the mix up I should have read my answer again before posting. When I used “you” I just put that in. Not to say you, Baptist in Richmond but as “you” who believe they have a license to sin.
Now if you are wondering why I started to talk about obedience because that is only way I believe you can lose your salvation.
Nothing, but what does that have to do with being obedient?
Contradiction here? Are you saying there is nothing you can do to save your own soul?
Did YOU not repent?
Did YOU not ask the Lord in your life?
So from your post I draw the conclusion that you believe that everyone in the world is saved?
Jesus died on the cross for our sins right?
Unless a person repents he/she will not have eternal life.
There is something we must do, we have to accept the free gift of salvation. If we do not accept that gift we will not make it to heaven.
I beleive that we are saved through Jesus Christ only
That is how I belive a person gets saved.
[ June 18, 2003, 05:21 AM: Message edited by: Matthew 16:24 ]
Matthew 16:24
New Member
OSAS "But we are saved by grace!"
Truth: This is true, but as an OSAS you don't understand the nature of God's grace.
This is where most OSAS get messed up. We are saved by grace--but they don't know what grace is. Many can quote an acronymn that they learned in Sunday School (God's Riches At Christ's Expense), but they have no clue about the definition or nature of God's grace.
God's grace is not like the grace period you get to pay your mortgage a couple of days late. A good definition is found in Webster's 1828 Dictionary, "the favorable influence of God... in renewing the heart and RESTRAINING from sin."
How do we know this is true? The word says so. The grace that bringeth salvation actually TEACHES us something--
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God THAT BRINGETH SALVATION hath appeared to all men, 2:12 TEACHING US that, DENYING ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, AND purify unto himself a peculiar people, ZEALOUS OF GOOD WORKS.
The blood of Jesus REDEEMS US AND PURIFIES US MAKING US ZEALOUS OF GOOD WORKS.
Yes, we are saved by grace. That grace THAT SAVES TEACHES us something. THE GRACE OF GOD THAT BRINGETH SALVATION TEACHES US TO DENY ungodliness and worldliness. It does not teach us to deny the Lordship of Jesus Christ. It teaches us to embrace it and submit to it. If you are saved, you are taught of God Himself to obey the Lord.
Truth: This is true, but as an OSAS you don't understand the nature of God's grace.
This is where most OSAS get messed up. We are saved by grace--but they don't know what grace is. Many can quote an acronymn that they learned in Sunday School (God's Riches At Christ's Expense), but they have no clue about the definition or nature of God's grace.
God's grace is not like the grace period you get to pay your mortgage a couple of days late. A good definition is found in Webster's 1828 Dictionary, "the favorable influence of God... in renewing the heart and RESTRAINING from sin."
How do we know this is true? The word says so. The grace that bringeth salvation actually TEACHES us something--
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God THAT BRINGETH SALVATION hath appeared to all men, 2:12 TEACHING US that, DENYING ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, AND purify unto himself a peculiar people, ZEALOUS OF GOOD WORKS.
The blood of Jesus REDEEMS US AND PURIFIES US MAKING US ZEALOUS OF GOOD WORKS.
Yes, we are saved by grace. That grace THAT SAVES TEACHES us something. THE GRACE OF GOD THAT BRINGETH SALVATION TEACHES US TO DENY ungodliness and worldliness. It does not teach us to deny the Lordship of Jesus Christ. It teaches us to embrace it and submit to it. If you are saved, you are taught of God Himself to obey the Lord.
Matthew 16:24
New Member
A works-based salvation?
Truth: No I don't. I have nothing to offer God. Salvation is a free gift. You do not understand the scriptures. Saving faith will PRODUCE good works. Just like an apple seed will eventually grow into an apple tree and PRODUCE apples. It will not produce oranges or grapenuts. The incorruptible seed in us will PRODUCE good works.
Scripture: Matthew 7:17-21 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven
A generic answer here, not implying anyone specifically here.
[ June 18, 2003, 05:25 AM: Message edited by: Matthew 16:24 ]
Truth: No I don't. I have nothing to offer God. Salvation is a free gift. You do not understand the scriptures. Saving faith will PRODUCE good works. Just like an apple seed will eventually grow into an apple tree and PRODUCE apples. It will not produce oranges or grapenuts. The incorruptible seed in us will PRODUCE good works.
Scripture: Matthew 7:17-21 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven
A generic answer here, not implying anyone specifically here.
[ June 18, 2003, 05:25 AM: Message edited by: Matthew 16:24 ]
Matthew 16:24
New Member
Hopefully I was able to make myself clear on what I believe about salvation, grace and obedience.
Now before anyone asks, what? You can commit one sin too many and lose your salvation?
No, I do not believe we are allotted so many sins when we are saved. Here is a quick overview on how I believe someone would lose his or her salvation.
John doe was a non-believing drunk living life to fulfill his sinful carnal desires. One day John got saved and all the drunkenness stopped, no bars and no nightclubs, just Jesus. A year goes by and he thinks “the Bible really does not come out and say drinking is a sin and I know a few people on the BB drink, so I can have one." He starts out with having one and then one day he accidentally gets drunk. He repents and stops drinking again for a couple of weeks. He starts up again and before he knows it he stopping for happy hour everyday and getting drunk. He used to repent when he got drunk but all of a sudden he stopped repenting. A few years pass in this time and before you know he back to his old ways.
I believe John here has lost his salvation; his heart was hardened and had no sign of repentance.
Did he commit one sin too many?
No, his heart changed.
Anyway that is how I see it.
To be honest with you, I do hope that I am wrong on this one but I just can’t believe we are saved no matter what we do.
Sorry guys.
And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
[ June 18, 2003, 05:23 AM: Message edited by: Matthew 16:24 ]
Now before anyone asks, what? You can commit one sin too many and lose your salvation?
No, I do not believe we are allotted so many sins when we are saved. Here is a quick overview on how I believe someone would lose his or her salvation.
John doe was a non-believing drunk living life to fulfill his sinful carnal desires. One day John got saved and all the drunkenness stopped, no bars and no nightclubs, just Jesus. A year goes by and he thinks “the Bible really does not come out and say drinking is a sin and I know a few people on the BB drink, so I can have one." He starts out with having one and then one day he accidentally gets drunk. He repents and stops drinking again for a couple of weeks. He starts up again and before he knows it he stopping for happy hour everyday and getting drunk. He used to repent when he got drunk but all of a sudden he stopped repenting. A few years pass in this time and before you know he back to his old ways.
I believe John here has lost his salvation; his heart was hardened and had no sign of repentance.
Did he commit one sin too many?
No, his heart changed.
Anyway that is how I see it.
To be honest with you, I do hope that I am wrong on this one but I just can’t believe we are saved no matter what we do.
Sorry guys.
And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
[ June 18, 2003, 05:23 AM: Message edited by: Matthew 16:24 ]
Actually, I'm not sure. But I lean strongly towards the belief that people can be saved and then fall away. Yes, no one can pluck me out of his hand, but I can still jump out if I choose to reject him and/or stop believing.
That's fine. My question is simply: if OSAS is true, does someone need to believe in OSAS to be saved? The post prior to my first post seemed to imply this, that if you are not OSAS you have a "different gospel" and are "accursed". I thought salvation was based on God's grace through our faith, not God's grace through getting all our doctrinal ducks in a row.