Dr. Walter
New Member
late on discussion
Brethren,
I know I am late on this discussion and perhaps the input that I am about to give has already been discussed and decided.
I believe that Acts 1:21-22 is the key to defining the Biblical point of origin of the church at Jerusalem. The metaphorical langauge "went in and out among us" an the word "accompanied" all point to a traveling assembly that began with the first baptized materials that Jesus assembled around himself in the first chapter of the gospel of John.
Matthew 16:18 and the word "build" can be just as easily understood to mean "build up" or "edify" and therefore speaking of a continuing action.
The setting in of apostles first (I Cor. 12:28) demonstrates that the church existed quite early long before Matthew 16:18 (Lk. 6:12; Mk. 3). Moroever, the church must first exist before you can "set in" anything. I personally believe it existed when the first baptized materials which also were apostolic materials were received by Christ in the first chapter of John.
These apostolic materials were the metaphorical "foundation" (Eph. 2;20) upon which the church was built. The reference to "prophets" in Ephesians 2:20 is to New Testament prophets ("secondarily prophets" - 1 Cor. 12:28).
Gospel redemption preceded the cross (Acts 10:43) and therefore the argument that the church could not be built prior to the cross is invalid and infers "church salvation" after the cross versus some other kind of salvation before the cross. However, I know of no salvation OUTSIDE of Christ before or after the cross.
What we have on Pentecost in regard to the baptism in the Spirit is not the creation of any kind of church but rather the common Old Testament variety of divine accreditation of a new "house of God" after the appointed builder finished the house (Moses in Ex. 40; Solomon in 1 Kings 7:3).
Brethren,
I know I am late on this discussion and perhaps the input that I am about to give has already been discussed and decided.
I believe that Acts 1:21-22 is the key to defining the Biblical point of origin of the church at Jerusalem. The metaphorical langauge "went in and out among us" an the word "accompanied" all point to a traveling assembly that began with the first baptized materials that Jesus assembled around himself in the first chapter of the gospel of John.
Matthew 16:18 and the word "build" can be just as easily understood to mean "build up" or "edify" and therefore speaking of a continuing action.
The setting in of apostles first (I Cor. 12:28) demonstrates that the church existed quite early long before Matthew 16:18 (Lk. 6:12; Mk. 3). Moroever, the church must first exist before you can "set in" anything. I personally believe it existed when the first baptized materials which also were apostolic materials were received by Christ in the first chapter of John.
These apostolic materials were the metaphorical "foundation" (Eph. 2;20) upon which the church was built. The reference to "prophets" in Ephesians 2:20 is to New Testament prophets ("secondarily prophets" - 1 Cor. 12:28).
Gospel redemption preceded the cross (Acts 10:43) and therefore the argument that the church could not be built prior to the cross is invalid and infers "church salvation" after the cross versus some other kind of salvation before the cross. However, I know of no salvation OUTSIDE of Christ before or after the cross.
What we have on Pentecost in regard to the baptism in the Spirit is not the creation of any kind of church but rather the common Old Testament variety of divine accreditation of a new "house of God" after the appointed builder finished the house (Moses in Ex. 40; Solomon in 1 Kings 7:3).
