Do You Have Only Half a Savior?

[Reynolds]

I have simply quoted scriptures and explained how they proclaim that divine healing is always God’s will.

Psalm 103

2 Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:

3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;

I used to be heavily involved in WOF doctrine. Studied directly under Kenneth Hagin.
You will see the error of the teaching one day.

 

[Van]

See, you changed what the scriptures actually say: “the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick.”

“A prayer offered in accordance with God’s will “ is not what James 5:14,15 says.

God’s will is always healing for everyone, as proven by Jesus healing all who came to Him.

I cannot understand why any Christian would argue against the abundant promises of God’s divine healing.

Healing is a real blessing. Thank the Lord for it.

You have got to be kidding. Your claiming your translation with faith undefined is somehow on a par with by interpretation of the meaning of faith.
Next you say God's will is always healing for everyone. That is false doctrine.

We all suffer from infirmity during our lifetime, which God allows. A young lady, not yet 40, but dying of cancer asked for the Elders of our church to pray over her. We did. And we comforted her with the fact soon she would be in the arms of Jesus, and her courageous fight would provide a witness for Christ not only among our church attenders, but also everyone who heard her story.

 

[Ascetic X]

I used to be heavily involved in WOF doctrine. Studied directly under Kenneth Hagin.
You will see the error of the teaching one day.

I appreciate your telling me that.

I know that some preachers who believe in divine healing will praise Kenneth Hagin as a pioneer in this field.

I have rejected all the stage show faith healers — Oral Roberts, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, etc. I reject the practice of slaying in the spirit and the charismania of things like the Toronto Blessing.

I am fearfully opposed to calling anything that claims to be a manifestation of the Holy Spirit a work of the devil, for there might be a tiny chance, in some things, that I could be mistaken. Many things appear so bizarre, and so similar to occult practices, it is tempting to call them diabolical. All I will say though is it seems to be clearly unedifying and unbiblical.

The realm of soul salvation has controversy and debates, but to me it seems far more clear and simple than the realm of the Holy Spirit and divine healing, which is full of confusion.

People turn against the new birth because of salvation preachers who are found guilty of horrible financial and sex crimes. The same reaction happens with charlatans who teach divine healing.

I have been blessed by the book “Divine Healing” by Andrew Murray, a Dutch Reformed Church pastor and son of a Dutch Reformed Church missionary. But it is mainly the scriptures that influence my thinking in this field.

I have received divine healing apart from medical science. I have also experienced undeniable miracles in God rescuing me from various dangers and conditions that threatened my life.

Sickness does not need to dominate anyone.

Jesus still heals.

 

[Ascetic X]

You have got to be kidding. Your claiming your translation with faith undefined is somehow on a par with by interpretation of the meaning of faith.
Next you say God's will is always healing for everyone. That is false doctrine.

We all suffer from infirmity during our lifetime, which God allows. A young lady, not yet 40, but dying of cancer asked for the Elders of our church to pray over her. We did. And we comforted her with the fact soon she would be in the arms of Jesus, and her courageous fight would provide a witness for Christ not only among our church attenders, but also everyone who heard her story.

Just because a lady did not receive divine healing is no reason to deny all the scriptures that promise it.

We are to base our beliefs on scripture, not experiences.

Prove from the ministry of Jesus that God’s will is not always healing. When did Jesus turn away any sick person?

Why claim this scripture is not true?


Psalm 103

2 Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:

3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;


If you don’t want to believe in divine healing, I hope you enjoy your resistance to a very great blessing promised to humanity.

I will never understand why anyone would want to think disease is bigger than God.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Have you been "Entirely saved" yet? Are you now glorified in an incorrupible body that will never die or grow old?

This is something the extreme "Word of Faith" crowd completely leaves out of such teaching.

 

[Ascetic X]

Have you been "Entirely saved" yet? Are you now glorified in an incorrupible body that will never die or grow old?

This is something the extreme "Word of Faith" crowd completely leaves out of such teaching.

I am not interested in the Word of Faith crowd, but you are correct about our resurrected glorified body.

But our pre-resurrected mortal body can experience healing here and now, according to our believing the many promises in scripture.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

I am not interested in the Word of Faith crowd, but you are correct about our resurrected glorified body.

But our pre-resurrected mortal body can experience healing here and now, according to our believing the many promises in scripture.

God is most certainly in the healing business and I pray for healing all the time. God is sovereign over when and whom he heals though and he is the source or joy regardless of the outcome!

 

[Ascetic X]

God is most certainly in the healing business and I pray for healing all the time. God is sovereign over when and whom he heals though and he is the source or joy regardless of the outcome!

I mostly agree, but when it is said that God is sovereign over when and whom He heals, we must not accuse God of partiality or favoritism. The fact that Jesus healed all who came to Him proves that God’s will is healing.

I myself would never say that God didn’t feel like healing someone. In fact, I will say only that there are mysteries involved with why one person gets healed, but another does not.

Not getting healed could be due to not ever being taught the scriptures on divine healing, having sin in their life, a negative attitude toward supernatural powers, unforgiveness, strong fear of disease, secondary benefits of ill health, feeling unworthy with self-condemnation and guilt, not discerning the Lord’s body in communion, weariness of living and desire to die, etc.

Yet it is true that faith is key.


Hebrews 11:6

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.



Acts 14:9,10

This same one heard Paul speak who, steadfastly beholding him and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,

Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.



Mark 5:34

And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.



Mark 10:51,52

So Jesus answered and said to him, "What do you want Me to do for you?" The blind man said to Him, "Rabboni, that I may receive my sight."

Then Jesus said to him, "Go your way; your faith has made you well." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus on the road.



Luke 17:17-19

So Jesus answered and said, "Were there not ten cleansed? But where are the nine?

Were there not any found who returned to give glory to God except this foreigner?"

And He said to him, "Arise, go your way. Your faith has made you well."

 

[Van]

Just because a lady did not receive divine healing is no reason to deny all the scriptures that promise it.

We are to base our beliefs on scripture, not experiences.

Prove from the ministry of Jesus that God’s will is not always healing. When did Jesus turn away any sick person?

Why claim this scripture is not true?


Psalm 103

2 Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:

3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;


If you don’t want to believe in divine healing, I hope you enjoy your resistance to a very great blessing promised to humanity.

I will never understand why anyone would want to think disease is bigger than God.

1) I base my understanding of scripture, on scripture, and not what others claim. Scripture does NOT promise healing from all physical infirmities such as caused by accident, illness, or malevolence during our physical lifetime.

2) I already proved Jesus ministry was not always to heal everyone. First you said it was an exception, now you claim it is non-existent.

3) Next you say I claim some scripture is not true. That is just another of your made up lies about me.

4) If, when we are resurrected in glorified bodies, we are healed from all diseases, then Psalm 103 is true, without your claim of instant gratification.

5) Then you call not believing God is willing to heal every physical malady, because scripture provides cases where believers suffer and die, a rejection of "divine healing." Such effort to misrepresent my view is not useful.

6) And finally, you again attribute an absolute false belief to me, i.e. believing disease is bigger than God.

Sir, I am sorry you have seemingly been led astray, but the road back is not paved with misrepresentations.

 

[Ascetic X]

1) I base my understanding of scripture, on scripture, and not what others claim. Scripture does NOT promise healing from all physical infirmities such as caused by accident, illness, or malevolence during our physical lifetime.

You certainly do not quote hardly any scripture to support your misunderstanding.

But you added “promise healing from all physical infirmities such as caused by accident, illness, or malevolence”, knowing that I have never talked about accident or malevolence.

I have not quoted anyone’s opinion about healing. I have provided scripture to validate my points.

2) I already proved Jesus ministry was not always to heal everyone. First you said it was an exception, now you claim it is non-existent.

You focus on the ONLY time that Jesus did not heal a person, but waited for him to die so He could heal him by raising him from the dead. You then use that exception to try to negate the multitude of times Jesus healed everyone immediately.

But you ignore the vast majority of times Jesus healed multitudes of people who came to Him.

Why anyone would hunt for reasons to deny divine healing is unknown to me.

3) Next you say I claim some scripture is not true. That is just another of your made up lies about me.

By rejecting scriptures on healing, you hold them to be untrue.

4) If, when we are resurrected in glorified bodies, we are healed from all diseases, then Psalm 103 is true, without your claim of instant gratification.

Psalm 103 says nothing about resurrection.

You just added that to negate the promise of God “who healeth all thy diseases”. It does not say, “who will heal all thy diseases in the resurrection.”

To think all healing verses refer only to resurrected bodies in the future is again a futile attempt to negate healing for today.

5) Then you call not believing God is willing to heal every physical malady, because scripture provides cases where believers suffer and die, a rejection of "divine healing." Such effort to misrepresent my view is not useful.

There are zero verses in the New Testament of believers suffering sickness and dying. Stephen died from stoning, not sickness.

6) And finally, you again attribute an absolute false belief to me, i.e. believing disease is bigger than God.

You may ignore all the many verses on divine healing, and search for loopholes in the promises of God, but the result will not be good.

A stubborn denial and dismissing of God’s promises of healing will harm no one but yourself.

You can continue to submit to disease and remain uncertain if God’s will is to heal. But you will only experience self-inflicted misery for no reason.

 

[Reynolds]

I appreciate your telling me that.

I know that some preachers who believe in divine healing will praise Kenneth Hagin as a pioneer in this field.

I have rejected all the stage show faith healers — Oral Roberts, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, etc. I reject the practice of slaying in the spirit and the charismania of things like the Toronto Blessing.

I am fearfully opposed to calling anything that claims to be a manifestation of the Holy Spirit a work of the devil, for there might be a tiny chance, in some things, that I could be mistaken. Many things appear so bizarre, and so similar to occult practices, it is tempting to call them diabolical. All I will say though is it seems to be clearly unedifying and unbiblical.

The realm of soul salvation has controversy and debates, but to me it seems far more clear and simple than the realm of the Holy Spirit and divine healing, which is full of confusion.

People turn against the new birth because of salvation preachers who are found guilty of horrible financial and sex crimes. The same reaction happens with charlatans who teach divine healing.

I have been blessed by the book “Divine Healing” by Andrew Murray, a Dutch Reformed Church pastor and son of a Dutch Reformed Church missionary. But it is mainly the scriptures that influence my thinking in this field.

I have received divine healing apart from medical science. I have also experienced undeniable miracles in God rescuing me from various dangers and conditions that threatened my life.

Sickness does not need to dominate anyone.

Jesus still heals.

I agree in part. I do believe I saw some genuine healing under Hagin. I honestly think he was sincere. He was not a con man. I just came to the point I began to differ with his doctrinal views. God's will is not for everyone to be healed all the time. We have to die of something. Though, I think I saw some real healing, I know I saw exponentially more not healed.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

I mostly agree, but when it is said that God is sovereign over when and whom He heals, we must not accuse God of partiality or favoritism. The fact that Jesus healed all who came to Him proves that God’s will is healing.

I do not for one minute believe that God is exercising partiality or favoritism over whom he heals and whom he does not!

Everything God does is for his glory and for our good! It may very well be God's best that you be afflicted with cancer or some other terminal illness and no, I would not wish that upon you and would pray for your healing if such came to be but perhaps God would grant you supernatural grace to endure and to glorify him in your time of suffering? Anyone can glorify God during the good times in their life. It requires supernatural grace to glorify him in the bad times and it is during such that people will sit up and take notice!

 

[Ascetic X]

I do not for one minute believe that God is exercising partiality or favoritism over whom he heals and whom he does not!

Everything God does is for his glory and for our good! It may very well be God's best that you be afflicted with cancer or some other terminal illness and no, I would not wish that upon you and would pray for your healing if such came to be but perhaps God would grant you supernatural grace to endure and to glorify him in your time of suffering? Anyone can glorify God during the good times in their life. It requires supernatural grace to glorify him in the bad times and it is during such that people will sit up and take notice!

Then why didn’t Jesus put diseases on people?

Why didn’t Jesus refuse to heal some people, telling them it was God’s will for them to endure disease and glorify Him in the suffering?

We understand God by looking at Jesus.

Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil, not to put those works on people.

Blessed Jesus fulfilled this…


Psalm 103

2 Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:

3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;



Deuteronomy 7:14,15

Thou shalt be blessed above all people: there shall not be male or female barren among you, or among your cattle.

And the Lord will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee, but will lay them upon all those who hate thee.