Do You Know That You Are Saved?

==I think this is the teaching of the Apostle John when he states,

"If we say that we have fellowship with Him and walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin" -1John 1:6-7

If we are walking in the light we are not walking in darkness, and if we are walking in the light we have fellowship with other believers, and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.

Notice what John says,

"If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from from all unrighteousness, if we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His Word is not in us" -1John 1:8-10

I think the point here is that because true believers are walking in the light they will confess their sin. Let me give an example of what I am saying. Let's say that I am standing in a dark room. Now lets say that dark room is dirty. Will I notice that? For the most part no. I may notice that something is out of place but because I am standing in the dark I will not notice how dirty the room is. Now lets say that someone turns on the light in that room so that I can now see. I will (a) know that I am standing in a dirty room and (b) I will probably start to try to clean that room or to get out of that room. Why? Because I now see the dirt. The person who is lost is in darkness. They sin, sin, and sin some more with little or no guilt. This person may be a "nice" person, they may attend church, they may be a member of a local church, they may read their Bible, say their prayers, raise their children in a godly way, and more. Yet because they are lost they are still in darkness. The result is that there will always be unconfessed sin in their life. The person who is saved is in the light. When we are in God's light we see the sin in our lives, we hate the sin in our lives, therefore we confess and repent of that sin. As soon as a true believer realizes that he/she has sinned they will confess and repent of it. Let's look to the Old Testament account of King David. The man committed sexual sin with (2Sam 11:4), had Bathsheba's husband killed (2Sam 11:14-17, 22-25), and then covered both acts of sin up for a period of time. The Bible gives this serious note,

"But the thing that David had done was evil in the sight of the Lord" -2Sam 11:27

A short time later the prophet Nathan put his boney finger in King David's face and said "You are the man!" (2Sam 12:7). Because David was a believer, because David was a follower of God, because David did have the Holy Spirit with him, when confronted he confessed and repented of his sin (2Sam 12:13, Ps 51, Ps 32). The point is that a true believer will always confess and repent of his/her sin. A person who allows unconfessed sin to remain in their life proves that they are living in the darkness and that any claim of salvation they have made is a lie. I think it is also important to note that we are in a different situation than David. We have the Holy Spirit living in us, we have been born again, been born of God. Therefore when a believer sins today the Holy Spirit will immediantly convict that believer. The person who is in the light will see their sin, feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit, see the results of their sin, and God may even use other people/Christians to bring the sin out, and the true believer will confess and repent of his/her sin (Matt 18:15-17).

So when you SFIC say "if one does not repent of sin, one is not walking in the Light and is in darkness" I say that I agree. That is not a works based salvation, as least not as I read it, that is talking about the results of true salvation. Your statement, in my opinion, reflects a correct understanding of the message of 1John. The one who is born of God cannot practice sin.

I like what John MacArthur says about 1John 1:9,

"Continual confession of sin is an indication of genuine salvation. While the false teachers would not admit their sin, the genuine Christian admitted and forsook it...Confession of sin characterizes genuine Christians, and God continually cleanses those who are confessing. Rather than focusing on confession for every single sin as necessary, John has especially in mind here a settled recognition and acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness" -MacArthur Study Bible, NASB version, pg 1935.

==As I read through the thread this morning one point kept jumping out at me. People seem to be concerned about a person who professes to be a Christian, who sins, and dies before he/she can confess/repent of that sin. Well I have an answer for that concern (though I must admit it is not original with me).

Let's say that a professing Christian is standing on the side of the road gossiping with a friend. During this gossip fest he/she also tells a lie or two. The conversation ends, the person turns to walk away, and it hits. No, not a car (as you probably thought), but a massive heart attack. The person is dead before their body hits the ground. The person never had the chance to confess or repent of their sins. Does that mean they automatically go to hell?

I think the answer is no. If that person's profession was true (ie...they were a true believer) they would have confessed and repented of their sin had they had the chance. We need to keep in mind that at salvation our eternal destiny is secured. Our daily confession of sin, and forgiveness of sin, is the resut of true salvation. However at the moment of salvation we are made right with God forever. Notice,

"For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified." -Hebrews 10:14

The verse literally reads that the believer is "perfected forever". So if, and this is a big if, the person in the account above was a true believer then their salvation is secure. However, and I must stress this important point, if they had lived they would have confessed and repented of that sin. Why? Because they are in the light and because a true believer cannot practice sin. Anyone who can sin and fail to be convicted and therefore fail to confess and repent really needs to re-examine their claim to salvation. Peter said that we are "to make certain about His calling" (2Peter 1:10). The Apostle Paul said that we are to test ourselves to see if we are really true believers (2Corinthians 13:5). We are also warned not to be deceived with empty words, no person who practices sin is a true Christian (Ephesians 5:1-7, Gal 5:19-21, 1John 3:9-10).

Btw, all of this is in agreement with what I stated in the OP. As I read over this thread I started to think, and still do think, that "some" of the disagreement here is more semantic than real. It seems that most of the people in this thread agree with the main points but they tend to word it slightly differently. I am fine with that. I am even fine with small disagreements about a technical point here or there. However I am afraid that some popular teachers and professing Christians seem to want to give people a license to sin and then, worse yet, give them a get out of hell free card. Well that is not what salvation is all about. Yes through salvation we escape hell, and yes we do have fire insurance, but there is much more to salvation than that. Salvation is a relationship with Christ, it is knowing Him. You can't know Him when you are walking in sin or if you are refusing to confess/repent of known sin.

Some teachers that, because of this, I would avoid in general are,

Zane Hodges
Bob Wilkin
Tony Evans
Joseph Dillow
Charlie Bing

Some teachers that don't generally go as far as those mentioned above, but are still on thin ice when it comes to this issue, are...

Charles Stanley
Hal Lindsey
Robert Lightner
Charles Ryrie

There are many good teachers out there, however, who get this issue right. Earlier in this thread I mentioned several of them and good books they had written on this issue.

John MacArthur
Ray Comfort
Martin Lloyd-Jones
AW Pink
Jonathan Edwards
Charles Spurgeon
William MacDonald
Darrell Bock
James White (There is a great debate between White and Bob Wilkin on this subject. It is offered for mp3 download at aomin.org).
and thankfully the list goes on...

 

How is Spurgeon adding works to salvation? Please explain.

 

==Well certainly, and here I am responding to your statement and not SFIC since I have not personally read the other threads and therefore don't understand his position, total sanctification/perfectionism is not possible in this life. I don't believe that Scripture ever states that believers never sin or that if they do they are lost. Such a message goes against the clear teaching of Scripture (1Jn 2:1-2, Heb 10:14, 1Jn 1:6-10). What I have read of SFIC, in this thread, I am not sure he is promoting total sinlessness. But I could be wrong, I have been wrong before. :wavey:

==A true, born of God, Christian can never perish (Jn 10:28) nor be lost (Jn 6:39). A true believer is perfect forever (Heb 10:14) and will be finally sanctified in heaven (Rom 8:29-30). No teaching that a true born of God person could be lost and end up in hell is acceptable. However we must acknowledge that many people who profess to be born of God are not (Matt 7:13-14, 21-23) and many times it shows in their behavior (Titus 1:16).

As for suicide, that is an issue that is way off topic. However I don't mind getting into it in this thread. Now, let me say up front, that I am no stranger to the effects of suicide. One my best friends growing up, and into college, killed himself while we were in college. He took a pistle, folded it up in a pillow, laid his head on it, and pulled the trigger. So I know what suicide does to family, close friends, and the community. It is a horrible act, it is a vile act, and I do believe that the vast majority of people who commit suicide end up in hell. However they end up in hell because they were lost and would have gone to hell no matter how they died. If a true believer were to commit suicide then they would not lose their salvation. However please notice that I said "IF". This is because I am not fully convinced that a true believer would commit suicide. If, however, one did then they would not lose their salvation. Let's keep in mind what Jesus said when talking about the only unpardonable sin,

"Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin" -Mark 3:28-29 (bold added)

There is only one unpardonable sin according to Jesus and that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (a sin a true believer cannot commit). All other sins are forgiveable and that includes suicide. If a true believer were to commit suicide their position before God would still be perfect forever (Heb 10:14) and God would not cast them out (Jn 6:37, Ps 37:24). Salvation is not based on man's action but on God's sovereign work. If a person could undo his/her salvation then they would be undoing the eternal election of God Almighty. I am sorry but I don't see that as possible. God starts salvation and sanctification in the life of a person and God will finish it (Phil 1:6, Eph 1:13-14, 1Thess 5:23-24, Heb 12:2). However, and I want to make this very clear, I am not sure that a true believer can/would commit suicide. And I am very sure that no believer can or will practice sin (1Jn 3:9-10) or allow sin to go unconfessed in their daily walk with the Lord (1Jn 1:6-10).

Edit to add ps...My friend who commited suicide was not a believer in Christ. Sadly I have no doubt that he is in hell right this very moment. I had just been saved when he killed himself and because we were at different schools I had not had a chance to talk with him.

==Well it is the opposite debate I pictured occuring in response to my OP but sometimes these things have a life of their own :type: .