Do You Limit a Sovereign God?

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

What do you feel a Sovereign God cannot do? Are there limits to His Sovereignty?

For starters: It has been suggested that God has not and or did not superintend over the translation process of the Word of God. Do you see such remarks as limiting what a Sovereign God can or cannot do? Do we, from our finite perspective of the past, let alone of the actions of God, have the right to make such statements? Are we in effect limiting His Sovereignty by making such remarks?

 

[Analgesic]

Well, a Sovereign God cannot make a round triangle.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Analgesic: Well, a Sovereign God cannot make a round triangle.
__________________
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone elses opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
~ Oscar Wilde

HP: That is a provocative and thought provoking statement…….BUT Is that your opinion, the thought of someone else, or God forbid a mere mimicry or simple quotation? :laugh:

 

[steaver]

What do you feel a Sovereign God cannot do? Are there limits to His Sovereignty?

I feel God cannot lie.

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Do you think God could allow another way, since God is Sovereign, despite what He said? Would it be putting God in a box for me to say to you Jesus is the only way to the Father, there can be no other way, period?

How about what God said concerning the receiving of living water (regeneration)?

Jhn 7:38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Jhn 7:39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

If I say no one received the living water until after Jesus was glorified, is that putting God in a box, even though God said no one received the living water until Jesus was glorified? Is Jhn 7:39 a half-truth maybe?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

What do you feel a Sovereign God cannot do? Are there limits to His Sovereignty?

For starters: It has been suggested that God has not and or did not superintend over the translation process of the Word of God. Do you see such remarks as limiting what a Sovereign God can or cannot do? Do we, from our finite perspective of the past, let alone of the actions of God, have the right to make such statements? Are we in effect limiting His Sovereignty by making such remarks?

First of all that is a misquote. The statement was that the claim that God only superintended one 17th century translation is patently absurd. You are running this this way too far.

The context was this - The hyper-KJVO crowd claims that God inspired the translators of the KJV to give a perfect English translation, but then He let the printers mess it up with all kinds of mistakes.

I contend that if God wanted to give us a perfect translation He would have inspired the printers as well as the translators. It simply defies logic to claim that God wanted to give us a perfect translation, that He inspired the translators to give it to us, but because printing methods were so crude we had to deal with a Bible full of mistakes. If a sovereign God wanted to give us a prefect translation then He has the power to overcome even the worse printing problems.

I contend that we limit His sovereignty by saying the reason that the original KJV has mistakes was because printing was so poor. If God truly desired to give us a perfect translation we would have one, printing methods or no.

My point was the translations are human efforts. The problem is grabbing one translation in one language and saying this is the one God gave. That is purely conjecture and human opinion.

 

[Analgesic]

HP: That is a provocative and thought provoking statement…….BUT Is that your opinion, the thought of someone else, or God forbid a mere mimicry or simple quotation? :laugh:

:laugh: Well, the principle arose independently through my own thoughtful meditation, though others no doubt thought of it first. I suspect the shape example was borrow from someone else for simplicity, however, since I believe my initial thoughts were rather more convoluted.

 

[Palatka51]

Being Sovereign there is nothing that God does that He can not do. Therefore it is not for us to question why He has done it or even allowed it. :type:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

CK4: First of all that is a misquote. The statement was that the claim that God only superintended one 17th century translation is patently absurd. You are running this this way too far.

HP: First, I never quoted anyone. I simply placed in my own words the thoughts I believe were expressed. Here was a statement of yours:

CK4: Translation is a human effort - full stop.

HP: Again, I was NOT quoting anyone, but rather simply stating in another way what I understood you to say. How on earth is that “running this way too far?” Just asking.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

If the Bible is a spiritual book and must be understood spiritually, could anyone, not lead by the Hoy Spirit of God, be qualified to translate it?

I am certain that an infidel could preach a sermon quoting from the Word of God and some in fact might be saved as a result, but in reality does anyone, apart from the aide and help of the Holy Spirit, really believe that what they can say in the flesh will have any lasting spiritual impact upon the heart of man? Does not ever preacher that loves God depend on God to speak through them? Is it not the cry of every faithful minister of God, Oh God, use this humble vessel to speak your Words and may Your Spirit emanate from my heart and mouth?

Why would a translator, translating God’s Word feel any different? Would not any trustworthy translator be found on his knees, asking for Divine help in translating His Word, or is the Bible simply another book of words like any other common book? It would seem to me that the translation of God’s Word would be anything but ‘human effort’ and that ‘full stop.’

 

[Reformer]

He can't sin. apart from that He is able to do (and dose do Psalm 135:6 ) anything He want's.

Well, a Sovereign God cannot make a round triangle.

He could to. He could redefine the word round to mean "A closed figure with exactly three sides. The three sides meet to form three interior angles." Then He could proceed.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Reformer

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Reformer: He is able to do (and dose do Psalm 135:6 ) anything He want's.

HP: The wonderful thing is that His ‘wants’ are always in line with His character of Love, Holiness, Justice, and Purity just to name a few. :thumbs:

 

[rbell]

First of all that is a misquote. The statement was that the claim that God only superintended one 17th century translation is patently absurd. You are running this this way too far.

The context was this - The hyper-KJVO crowd claims that God inspired the translators of the KJV to give a perfect English translation, but then He let the printers mess it up with all kinds of mistakes.

I contend that if God wanted to give us a perfect translation He would have inspired the printers as well as the translators. It simply defies logic to claim that God wanted to give us a perfect translation, that He inspired the translators to give it to us, but because printing methods were so crude we had to deal with a Bible full of mistakes. If a sovereign God wanted to give us a prefect translation then He has the power to overcome even the worse printing problems.

I contend that we limit His sovereignty by saying the reason that the original KJV has mistakes was because printing was so poor. If God truly desired to give us a perfect translation we would have one, printing methods or no.

My point was the translations are human efforts. The problem is grabbing one translation in one language and saying this is the one God gave. That is purely conjecture and human opinion.

an outstanding post that has been completely ignored...even though it thoroughly and completely answers the accusations of the OP.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Rbell: an outstanding post that has been completely ignored...even though it thoroughly and completely answers the accusations of the OP.

HP: Quite to the contrary I would say.

His post has not been ignored, nor has he taken the opportunity to address the issue that I have raised since that post.

Possibly you might desire to comment on the substance of the questions I was attempting to raise in the OP? Is Scripture translation merely human effort, or is it within the realm of possibility that God might have involved Himself through some or even all translators? Is the Bible a spiritual book that must be spiritually discerned, or is it simply one of like kind to many other human translated ones and subject to the same treatment as they would receive?

I am not taking sides directly for or against the KJO position, for I am certain there are many variations of that belief. I am simply trying to shed light on some things that I believe are worthy to be considered in any debate involving the translation process or the translations themselves.

 

[billwald]

Traditional Christianity officially limits God by claiming that God can not regenerate a person who has never heard of Jesus and/or has not "invited Jesus . . . ."

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Billwald: Traditional Christianity officially limits God by claiming that God can not regenerate a person who has never heard of Jesus and/or has not "invited Jesus . . .”

HP: Can you expound on that a bit more?

 

[donnA]

There is no man able to limit God.
God on the other hand limits Himself to the standards He has set for Himself and His actions. He tells us about it in the Bible, who He is, and how He will act with men, He will not violate what he has said in scripture. It is God who limits God. No man has the power to limit God.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Donna: There is no man able to limit God...

HP: Ok. Now how do you relate that to the OP? Are you willing to agree with the ones that says that God is not involved in the translation of His Word and that translations are merely human effort?

 

[bound]

HP: Ok. Now how do you relate that to the OP? Are you willing to agree with the ones that says that God is not involved in the translation of His Word and that translations are merely human effort?

Hi Heavenly Pilgrim,

They closed our other discussion. Bummer. :laugh:

I believe that any spiritual activity participates, in degrees, with the Divine Will of God but I'm not sure I can tell you which one's do the best job at this. That would be assuming too much on my part.

 

[donnA]

HP: Ok. Now how do you relate that to the OP? Are you willing to agree with the ones that says that God is not involved in the translation of His Word and that translations are merely human effort?

I relate this to the title you chose for this thread.

RE: Do You Limit a Sovereign God?

And I answered your question.
Again, man can not put limits on God.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Bound: I believe that any spiritual activity participates, in degrees, with the Divine Will of God but I'm not sure I can tell you which one's do the best job at this. That would be assuming too much on my part.

HP: I believe that is the best response to date!:thumbs: How could one say that God is the Author of His Word and then say that the translation of it is merely human effort?

Now you raise the issue that needs to be raised. Which ones do the best job of it? Excellent question. In light of that would one place his trust in the efforts and theories of men that did not even believe in the verbally inspired Word of God? If they did not have that straight, there are two men that I certainly will not seek advice from, nor will I utilize versions tainted with their theories.