Do You Pray for the Lost?

Pastor Larry,

re: “Nope. The natural does not seek God, he cannot please God, he is unable to do so. That does not change the fact that the commands are given to repent and believe.”

OK - I guess. However, it doesn’t seem to make much sense to command one to believe when it is known that a person does not have the ability to CHOOSE to do so.

 

You guess? The Bible plainly teaches that. The command to believe is for those who have been born again. Preachers do not know who has been born again and who has not, therefore, the command to believe is generally to all. However, we know that only those who have been enabled by God will believe.

 

Primitive Baptist,

re: “The command to believe is for those who have been born again.”

So a person is born again and THEN at some point they need to believe that a supreme being exists?

 

Primitive Baptist,

First you said this:
The command to believe is for those who have been born again.

Then you said this:
the command to believe is generally to all.

Then you said this:
we know that only those who have been enabled by God will believe.

This is confusing. You mean that God has commanded all to believe? or has He commanded just the ones who are already Born-Again to believe?
How can He command something from people who are incapable to do so?
Then Judge them fairly?
Naomi

 

Primitive Baptist or any other calvinist,
I have read some of your arguments and discussed with others in different realms these issues. So my question to you than is how do you even know you are one of the elect? When did you find this out?
And what made you believe that you were chosen by the Lord? And how can you prove that you are elect?

HCL

[ June 01, 2002, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]

 

In the same vein, how can those who say that their prayer of repentance and of asking Jesus into their hearts guarantee that they are saved ?

Their answer will most probably be the same answer electionists will give:

BTW, Primitive Baptist and Primitive Baptists are not exactly Calvinists.

 

Q: How does one know he or she is of the elect?

A: "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13)

"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:" (Rom. 8:16)

How does an Arminian know he or she is of the elect?

 

Brethren I have been a Primitive Baptist for 35 years and reading what you other Primitive Baptist have said someone is chasing their tail! I do not pray for the eternal lost as God and his Son Jesus Christ has never and will never lose a one. I do pray for those who are lost to the truths as they are in Christ Jesus. Amazing Grace is just that and to reach one of Gods blood bought children you would have to overthrow the Godhead... Starting with the Holy Ghost!

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins... Gods blood bought children have never fallen from that grace since the day Jesus Christ said: "IT IS FINISHED"... either he did or he didn't and in the scriptures there is no middle ground... Brother Glen

 

My question was, "How does an Arminian know he or she is of the elect?" An Arminian knows he or she is of the elect because he or she believes on the name of the Son of God, Jesus Christ. I knew that, but I do not understand the point in Arminians asking how Calvinists know their election. You precisely answered my question; the same way an Arminian knows! Exactly my point.

[ June 01, 2002, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: Calvinist8503 ]

 

How is that?</font>[/QUOTE]On Perseverance of the Saints, most Primitive Baptists hold to Preservation of the Saints. So I guess that doesn't make us Calvinists. No such thing as 4-point Calvinists,
right ?

 

1. Chance and fate are two different things. Chance is with respect to possible events; fate regards fixed, immutable occurances. Fate is not random. My argument is with reference to the idea of God and fate.

2. It was agreed that the difference between God and fate is that the former is with reference to a living, rational being, the latter to natural force. That is the only difference, however, it is blurred, by it's mode of operation and the results. I believe that the Reformed position will agree that God possesses the power to "fix beforehand and control everything that happens" and that one is "selected or destined" by God. So it is with fate.

Try walking a real stray dog over a pre-painted straight line one day and and a stuffed dog the next. Let me know which was easier to get to follow the line.

I agree that you say the Bible teaches, "everything stems from and results in the glory of God." The question is, is what you say the Scripture "clearly" teaches actually what the Scriptures teach?

It is not you assertion "everything stems from and results in the glory of God," that is the problem; it is your assertion that the Reformed/Calvinistic view of divine predestination is what gives God glory.

The question is, which interpretation of this verse actually gives God glory, i.e. makes God look good? I do not see that the view, which interprets this verse in the Reformed/Calvinistic tradition is what gives God glory.

1. Correction: I stated that I do not understand how God can receive glory by the Reformed/Calvinistic interpretation of Scripture, and that I believe he does not get it in this way. However, I do know how God receives glory, however, through means of a different interpretation of Scripture.

2. Actually, you have managed to change the subject from the topic of divine predestination and fate to the question of how God receives glory.

3. I accept what God says, just not how the Reformed/Calvinistic tradition says He says it.

[ June 04, 2002, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: Nelson ]

 

4.5 point Calvinists ?

Psssst!! Arminians, you got the ball in your court, ladies and gentlemen.

As far as PB's, you gotta understand our people's history to know where I'm coming from when I say we've been preaching the Doctrine of Grace before Calvin came on the scene.
Of course, there were and are Arminian PB's, too.