Do you raise YOUR Children this way?

[TCGreek]

Why bother to repent if God is going to save you anyway?

1. It is because God has done a work on the heart why anyone bothers to repent.

2. Without the sovereign grace of God, no one will bother to repent. Sinning will be the order of the day.

 

[Dale-c]

Could you tell me why, do you think its because you in your mind put down the free willers?

It is because we as sinners are hopeless without any chance in ourselves to save ourselves.
It insults us because it says we are totally in sin. There is no good in us. GOd must change our hearts in order for us to do anything to please Him.

 

[Dale-c]

I am off to bed. I have to be at work, 60 miles away, at 5 in the morning.
It has been good chatting.
MK I hope you don't mind me saying this but I will pray tonight that GOd will give you clarity on this topic. I struggled with it for several years.
It it a tough topic. The holy spirit must teach it. I can only do so much.

 

[TCGreek]

Because God ISN"T going to save you anyway.
Don't you see?
The fact that you believed and repented was because of God's regenerating power in your heart.
Just because God has created an end does not mean that that end will happen with out the means that He has ordained.

See, God not only predestined you to eternal life, He predestined you to regerneration and to soften your heart to the Gospel.
It was part of His plan to bring whoever it was into your life to share the Gospel with you. It was all pat of God's will for your life.

I know of no other way to explain it, except to point out these texts (Acts 18:9, 10; 2 Thess. 2:12, 13).

 

[menageriekeeper]

He left that young man to his own will and actions. If God left you to your own will and actions, you would have done the same thing.

<begin sarcasm> Wow! That is some love that our Savior felt for this young man! I want some of that love. <end sarcasm>

I like my version of love better than yours mine comes from John 3:16. Where's your's come from?

 

[TCGreek]

<begin sarcasm> Wow! That is some love that our Savior felt for this young man! I want some of that love. <end sarcasm>

I like my version of love better than yours mine comes from John 3:16. Where's your's come from?

1. Then why don't all of us just simplify our theology and become universalists?

2. Why would a loving God create a world where image-bearers of His would choose to reject him and spend eternity in the Lake of fire?

3. Not only must the Calvinists answer these questions, but every other soteriological approach must answer these questions.

 

[Brother Bob]

I am off to bed. I have to be at work, 60 miles away, at 5 in the morning.
It has been good chatting.
MK I hope you don't mind me saying this but I will pray tonight that GOd will give you clarity on this topic. I struggled with it for several years.
It it a tough topic. The holy spirit must teach it. I can only do so much.

You need to pray for yourself, that God will give you some understanding.

 

[tinytim]

I had a preacher say one time, "God is not a rapist, he will not force himself on you."

 

[menageriekeeper]

MK I hope you don't mind me saying this but I will pray tonight that GOd will give you clarity on this topic.

which is quite amusing to me at this moment cause I'm thinking it is you who needs clarity.

I'm also of the mind that there are things that God will only give clarity to in the atmosphere of heaven where all things will become clear. I daresay this is one of 'em.

Hang tight, TC, I gotta go look up the references you gave. Meantime check the wording on #1 above and clarify for me please. I think you left something out of the wording.

 

[Brother Bob]

TC;
1. It is because God has done a work on the heart why anyone bothers to repent.

2. Without the sovereign grace of God, no one will bother to repent. Sinning will be the order of the day.
__________________

Dale; It is because we as sinners are hopeless without any chance in ourselves to save ourselves.
It insults us because it says we are totally in sin. There is no good in us. GOd must change our hearts in order for us to do anything to please Him.

Both of these quotes says that God chose some for Heaven and let the others go to hell.

 

[Dale-c]

You need to pray for yourself, that God will give you some understanding.

I did, and HE did.

I had a preacher say one time, "God is not a rapist, he will not force himself on you."

Very true. He will first change your heart to make you love Him.

 

[Brother Bob]

Very true. He will first change your heart to make you love Him.

Then have His way with you.

 

[webdog]

He left that young man to his own will and actions. If God left you to your own will and actions, you would have done the same thing.

...now, do you have Scripture for THAT? (that God does leave us to our own will. I think not, because it is not there)

 

[webdog]

<begin sarcasm> Wow! That is some love that our Savior felt for this young man! I want some of that love. <end sarcasm>

I like my version of love better than yours mine comes from John 3:16. Where's your's come from?

Great answer! The calvinist version is anything BUT love in that verse...

 

[menageriekeeper]

Don't think I've left for good. I'll be back in the morning.

In the meantime TC, check your Acts reference and be sure it's correct. I get the Thess. passage in our context, but can't figure out what Peter's protection has to do with anything.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Read through all the posts. lol I might add some comments but I have 2 problems. I am burning up because of all the heat on this thread, and I think they set ablaze the multitudes of strawmen about... :laugh:

 

[TCGreek]

Don't think I've left for good. I'll be back in the morning.

In the meantime TC, check your Acts reference and be sure it's correct. I get the Thess. passage in our context, but can't figure out what Peter's protection has to do with anything.

My Acts reference is correct: 18:9, 10: "The Lord said to Paul by a vision in the night, “Do not be afraid, but speak and do not be silent, because I am with you, and no one will assault you to harm you, because I have many people in this city.”

 

[charles_creech78]

JOHN 3:16 For God so LOVED THE WORLD, that he GAVE HIS ONLY begotten SON, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM should not perish, but have everlasting life. JOHN 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, Because he HATH NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. JOHN 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and MEN LOVED DARKNESS RATHER THAN LIGHT, because their DEEDS WERE EVIL. JOHN 3:20 FOR EVERY ONE THAT DOETH EVIL HATETH THE LIGHT, neither cometh to the light, LEST HIS DEEDS SHOULD BE REPROVED. JOHN 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in GOD. Jer 31:3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with LOVING KINDNESS HAVE I DRAWN THEE. 2 Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is LONGSUFFERING TO US-WARD, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, but that ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE. John 5:39 Search the scriptures; For in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. John 5:41 I receive not honour from men. John 5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. Ro 1:28 And even as they did not LIKE TO RETAIN GOD IN THEIR KNOWLEDGE , God GAVE THEM OVER to reprobate minds, to do those things which are not convenient; ro 1:29 Being filled with al unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[David Lamb]

So, even if you don't believe there is a God, and you are a complete atheist, no faith whatsoever. WoW! you are saved!!!!,

Just wondering - does anyone on this Board believe that? Has anyone stated it? Do you really think that Christians who hold the reformed doctrines belive a person can be saved without faith, without knowing they are saved, without hearing God's Word preached, without turning to the Lord for salvation, without godly sorrow and repentance? I can't speak for others of course, but I certainly don't believe what you seem to suggest.

Perhaps if there is someone on the BB who does believe that sinners can be saved without faith, repentance and so on, they could write and say so. If no one does, I would suggest that there is a misunderstanding of what reformed doctrine actually is. (Even if someone does reply and say, "I believe you can be saved without faith, repentance, etc." they are certainly not believing what the Reformers believed.)

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Just wondering - does anyone on this Board believe that? Has anyone stated it? Do you really think that Christians who hold the reformed doctrines belive a person can be saved without faith, without knowing they are saved, without hearing God's Word preached, without turning to the Lord for salvation, without godly sorrow and repentance? I can't speak for others of course, but I certainly don't believe what you seem to suggest.

Perhaps if there is someone on the BB who does believe that sinners can be saved without faith, repentance and so on, they could write and say so. If no one does, I would suggest that there is a misunderstanding of what reformed doctrine actually is. (Even if someone does reply and say, "I believe you can be saved without faith, repentance, etc." they are certainly not believing what the Reformers believed.)

Hey brother David. I always see graciousness in your writing. I know it is the work of God, I just admire it. May the Lord do that in me. And I don't think anyone here believe someone is saved apart from faith. But some would like us to take shots at that strawman. lol