Do You See a definite satanic Inluence In Strident Homosexuality?

[Yeshua1]

So do adultery and heterosexual fornication. So exactly how is this sin any more unnatural than adultery and heterosexual fornication?

As phil said, the Lord created the body parts for male and female to be natural in their function with each other, its perversion and unnatural to have them intereact with same sex!

That wouldbe the Apostle paul understand of this also, as in romans, so do yuo disagree with his assessment then?

 

[Zaac]

​

Of course, I am expecting to get lectured and clumped into the group of good old boys who pick on homosexuals, so let me add this. There is no more demonic intervention in this sin than there is in let's say, fornication and adultery, or gossip, or hate, or anger, or murder, or theft!

Wow, you finally said something based in God's word and not opinion. :laugh:

Still, I got this strange, tingling sensation in the back of my mead that soon and very soon, a certain memeber wil defintiely drop the hammer of judgement on Yall!...

You must be using Head and Shoulders. It does tend to give that tingling feeling.

 

[Zaac]

As phil said, the Lord created the body parts for male and female to be natural in their function with each other, its perversion and unnatural to have them intereact with same sex!

God created the body parts of male and female to be natural in their function with ONE other male or female. So AGAIN, how is the sin of homosexual sex any more unnatural than the sin of heterosexual fornication and adultery?

That wouldbe the Apostle paul understand of this also, as in romans, so do yuo disagree with his assessment then?

YOUR interpretive assessment disagrees with the word's of Paul.

 

[agedman]

As goes the Church so goes the world. I would venture that the CHURCH is the something driving the need.

Perhaps this statement needs to be considered in the light of history.

The assembly of believers have usually been "separate" from the world, but not far from it.

When looking through the conduct of living, standards set by the typical believers, ... The world has a certain level of distinction, but the church is were the world once was.

That is picture two people standing side by side. One moves to the side and the other fills the gap.

What the standards of the world was in the 50's the church held what was common in the 40's.

What the world held in the 60's the church held as the the acceptable standard that of the 50's.

Today, the world has moved into proclaiming all manner of evil as good.

The church is not far behind by proclaiming all manner of soul freedom a license to engage in the worldly.

Adultery and fornication is no longer a disqualification from a young man becoming a pastor, but a setback in which time will resolve.

Lies are no longer a breach of trust, a flaw of character, but contextualized into the personality needs and the demands of the job.

The list could go on.

The point being made that the church standards of today are usually nothing more than the world standards of yesterday.

 

[Yeshua1]

God created the body parts of male and female to be natural in their function with ONE other male or female. So AGAIN, how is the sin of homosexual sex any more unnatural than the sin of heterosexual fornication and adultery?



YOUR interpretive assessment disagrees with the word's of Paul.

how so? paul stated to us that those active in Homosexual behaviour were commiting unnatural acts of perversion, exchanging the God meant way for their lustful/unnatural functions, so again, do you diasagree with him on this?

 

[Zaac]

Perhaps this statement needs to be considered in the light of history.

The assembly of believers have usually been "separate" from the world, but not far from it.

When looking through the conduct of living, standards set by the typical believers, ... The world has a certain level of distinction, but the church is were the world once was.

That is picture two people standing side by side. One moves to the side and the other fills the gap.

What the standards of the world was in the 50's the church held what was common in the 40's.

What the world held in the 60's the church held as the the acceptable standard that of the 50's.

Today, the world has moved into proclaiming all manner of evil as good.

The church is not far behind by proclaiming all manner of soul freedom a license to engage in the worldly.

Adultery and fornication is no longer a disqualification from a young man becoming a pastor, but a setback in which time will resolve.

Lies are no longer a breach of trust, a flaw of character, but contextualized into the personality needs and the demands of the job.

The list could go on.

The point being made that the church standards of today are usually nothing more than the world standards of yesterday.

Well said.:applause:

I think the modern day church has fallen asleep at the wheel and has no concept or understanding for just how crafty satan is.

His slight of hand is PHENOMENAL. He's got the church angrily focused on the issues of homosexuality and abortion to the point that we're driving those who would be involved in those things farther away because of our unloving approach to them as an ISSUE/argument to be won and not as people to be lovingly pointed to Christ...the enemy has us so wrapped up in these ISSUES that we've been lulled to sleep about how we, the CHURCH, have become complacent and accepting of any and all sorts of heterosexual fornication and lusts in EVERYTHING.

You can't turn on a tv show in which there is not a fornicating, shacked up heterosexual couple. There is rarely a commercial in which there isn't some sort of sexual undertones or innuendo. And then there's the flat out bold stuff like the Victoria Secret angels commercials, or the Liquid Plumbr commercials.

By accepting the world's standard as our own as the years have gone by, we've allowed the world's old standard to become our standard of today instead of the HOLINESS of God's word.

Preach the GOSPEL and the ISSUES are addressed.
Preach the GOSPEL and we stay on message without allowing the enemy to distract us with ISSUES.

 

[Yeshua1]

Well said.:applause:

I think the modern day church has fallen asleep at the wheel and has no concept or understanding for just how crafty satan is.

His slight of hand is PHENOMENAL. He's got the church angrily focused on the issues of homosexuality and abortion to the point that we're driving those who would be involved in those things farther away because of our unloving approach to them as an ISSUE/argument to be won and not as people to be lovingly pointed to Christ...the enemy has us so wrapped up in these ISSUES that we've been lulled to sleep about how we, the CHURCH, have become complacent and accepting of any and all sorts of heterosexual fornication and lusts in EVERYTHING.

You can't turn on a tv show in which there is not a fornicating, shacked up heterosexual couple. There is rarely a commercial in which there isn't some sort of sexual undertones or innuendo. And then there's the flat out bold stuff like the Victoria Secret angels commercials, or the Liquid Plumbr commercials.

By accepting the world's standard as our own as the years have gone by, we've allowed the world's old standard to become our standard of today instead of the HOLINESS of God's word.

Preach the GOSPEL and the ISSUES are addressed.
Preach the GOSPEL and we stay on message without allowing the enemy to distract us with ISSUES.

If the church provclaimed the twin truths that Homosexuality is an abomination to God, that no one can claim Jesus saved them and still continue unchanged in tht lifestyle, yet also stated that jesus saves them out from that lifestyle, would still be called 'hate mongers/homophobs", as many want jesus and their sin also!

 

[Zaac]

how so? paul stated to us that those active in Homosexual behaviour were commiting unnatural acts of perversion, exchanging the God meant way for their lustful/unnatural functions, so again, do you diasagree with him on this?

Scripture says:

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Romans 1:26-27

Natural relations are the relations God created in the Garden. One man with one woman. Anything outside of that original NATURAL plan is unnatural.

The homosexual relations fit into that category as do all other sexual relations that fall outside the original NATURAL plan.

There is NOTHING natural about a man having sex with multiple women. There is nothing NATURAL about a woman having sex with multiple men.

Natural relations is and always has been one man with one woman. Anything outside of that is unnatural as ALL SIN is unnatural.

Sin did not naturally occur. Everything that God made was GOOD. And it was without sin NATURALLY.

Man UNNATURALLY introduced sin by his disobedience.

Time and time again, I have heard folks in the church try to say that homosexual sex is unnatural and that heterosexual fornication is natural because it's still a man with a woman.

This aids the church in pushing folks away.

Sin is sin. It's ALL unnatural because nature as GOD created it was ALL Good.

 

[Zaac]

If the church provclaimed the twin truths that Homosexuality is an abomination to God, that no one can claim Jesus saved them and still continue unchanged in tht lifestyle, yet also stated that jesus saves them out from that lifestyle, would still be called 'hate mongers/homophobs", as many want jesus and their sin also!

Because THAT is not a BIBLICAL truth. That's what you and the church want to be the BIBLICAL truth. But it's just YOUR truth.

I don't know of anyone in the church who just stopped sinning once they came to faith in Christ.

People have and deal with strongholds that do not just disappear when they come to faith in Christ.

If you're hooked on crack on Tuesday and come to faith in Christ on Wednesday, that doesn't necessarily mean that you will not struggle with that crack addiction on Thursday.

You and so many in the church are so concerned with being right about the issue that you keep forgetting that these are people. Where has God in His word ever said that people cannot still struggle with their past sin after being saved?

They refer to you as hate mongers because they don't hear anything of love coming from you because you and so many in the church don't think they can still struggle with their sin after God saves them.

Paul says in Scripture:

15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. Romans 7:15-20

PEOPLE will still struggle with sin until God returns and gives us all our new glorified bodies.

if you are still encased in sinful flesh, you STILL have the capacity to sin the same sins you did before you were saved.

 

[JonC]

Misinformation and distraction from the truth are used mightily by the devil against the church to get us to essentially push people towards this "movement".

Homosexuality is nowhere near being more pervasive than other sins.

Heterosexual fornication and lust are many times over more pervasive just because of sheer numbers.

But we've been lulled to sleep.

Yes…I agree. Sin seems to build upon sin. Heterosexual sexual sins are common place - it has been ingrained by our culture as not only normal behavior but as almost a right of passage (judging from television and movies). Homosexuality is now where other sexual sins used to be - they are the target because they have not been fully accepted…yet. I think that you are correct, forms of immorality are moving targets as we decline as a society towards a greater spiritual depravity.

 

[saturneptune]

Of course, I am expecting to get lectured and clumped into the group of good old boys who pick on homosexuals, so let me add this. There is no more demonic intervention in this sin than there is in let's say, fornication and adultery, or gossip, or hate, or anger, or murder, or theft!

Still, I got this strange, tingling sensation in the back of my mead that soon and very soon, a certain memeber wil defintiely drop the hammer of judgement on Yall!...

​

Alas, do not be alarmed. There is some substance to this thread. I got a phone call from this sweet guy this week.

 

[righteousdude2]

I say, "Yield to the man on a mission!"

As phil said, the Lord created the body parts for male and female to be natural in their function with each other, its perversion and unnatural to have them intereact with same sex!

That would be the Apostle paul understand of this also, as in romans, so do yuo disagree with his assessment then?

Unfortunately, Yeshua, this is a fight you cannot win. :tonofbricks:

Take a lesson from me, and just tell certain people on this board, that those who are involved in same-gender intercourse are committing fornication...and it is worse; according to statistics, homosexuals are more likely to be unfaithful in their relationships than those who are married and practicing natural relations [as God deemed it to be].

Furthermore, if they are married that makes them adulterers, and if they are simply shacking up, that makes them fornicators!

SEE: http://homochild.wordpress.com/2012...heterosexual-couples-what-the-statistics-say/

So, as you see, the numbers do not lie! Even same gendered sex folks [commonly referred to as homosexuals] are committing the sins, our brother likes to say we are not preaching against. :BangHead:

So, I will yield to my brother, and just say that this group of deviants [meaning to "deviate" from that which is the norm, per God, you know, our CREATOR] are sinning through acts of fornication and adultery, too. It just so happens that their form of fornication and adultery are in, shall we say, "Unnatural acts with members of their own gender, a sin that Paul and the OT writers say is an abomination to God!" :tear:

 

[Zaac]

Unfortunately, Yeshua, this is a fight you cannot win. :tonofbricks:

Yep. Ain't no need to try to convince me that Scripture says something it does not.

Take a lesson from me, and just tell certain people on this board, that those who are involved in same-gender intercourse are committing fornication...and it is worse;

Yes because we know that you are the arbiter and the measurer of how sinful all things are.

according to statistics, homosexuals are more likely to be unfaithful in their relationships than those who are married and practicing natural relations [as God deemed it to be].

Deal with the unfaithfulness inside the church. those outside the church are acting as sinners should and have an excuse. We don't.

Furthermore, if they are married that makes them adulterers, and if they are simply shacking up, that makes them fornicators!

SEE: http://homochild.wordpress.com/2012...heterosexual-couples-what-the-statistics-say/

So, as you see, the numbers do not lie! Even same gendered sex folks [commonly referred to as homosexuals] are committing the sins, our brother likes to say we are not preaching against. :BangHead:

So, I will yield to my brother, and just say that this group of deviants [meaning to "deviate" from that which is the norm, per God, you know, our CREATOR] are sinning through acts of fornication and adultery, too. It just so happens that their form of fornication and adultery are in, shall we say, "Unnatural acts with members of their own gender, a sin that Paul and the OT writers say is an abomination to God!" :tear:

Numbers may not lie. But people sure do. Could one of you BIBLICAL scholars please present to us one act of sin that Scripture says is natural?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Yep. Ain't no need to try to convince me that Scripture says something it does not.

Deniers of Scripture shouldn't even be allowed to post on this board. That would be you.

Yes because we know that you are the arbiter and the measurer of how sinful all things are.

You are now trying to say that we are deciding what sin is, when the reality is that God has defined the sin, and it is plain what He has said. Again, this alone should get you banned from the board. This is, after all, a Christian community.

Deal with the unfaithfulness inside the church. those outside the church are acting as sinners should and have an excuse. We don't.

Ok, so which is it? They are sinners? Or they are not? You can't have it both ways.

Numbers may not lie. But people sure do. Could one of you BIBLICAL scholars please present to us one act of sin that Scripture says is natural?

All sin is from the natural man. The man acting in the spirit does not sin.

 

[agedman]

I have been reading through the last couple pages on the thread trying to figure out what the contention is about!

Zaac is stating all manner of perversions INCLUDING adultery and fornication are sin.

That is Biblical

Disconnected, S&N, Dude, and others are stating all manner of perversions INCLUDING adultery and fornication are sin.

That is Biblical

Unless I am mistaken, isn't everyone making the same argument, or is there a contention over the definition of "is?"

Perhaps I am missing some specific statement that is in contention.

If so, someone please state the parameters of their argument - what makes their view actually different from that of some other.

Adultery is sin. Yep - I think we can all agree.

Fornication is a sin. Yep - I think we can all agree.

All manner of sexual perversions are sin. Yep - I think we can all agree.

Does the church expect one who is addicted to sin to refrain from such as one no longer of the world? Yep - I think we can all agree.

Does the world expect the to be conformed to the standards of the world and live by that standard? Yep - I think we can all agree.

Is the assembly a mixture of the world and worldly, God and Godly? Yep - I think we can all agree.

So, what is the argument?

 

[Zaac]

Some folks seem to think that heterosexual fornication and adultery are natural. And I said God's creation was perfect and without sin so ALL sin is unnatural.

And folks kinda get upset with faced with the reality that the sin being committed by the homosexual is no more unnatural than the sin being committed by the heterosexual.

 

[Zaac]

Deniers of Scripture shouldn't even be allowed to post on this board. That would be you.

Liars should probably be banned too.

You are now trying to say that we are deciding what sin is, when the reality is that God has defined the sin, and it is plain what He has said. Again, this alone should get you banned from the board. This is, after all, a Christian community.

Then simply show where Scripture says that any sin is natural or HUSH. Always trying to get me banned aren't ya? Maybe I can get that Duck Dynasty guy to come defend my right to say what I say?

Ok, so which is it? They are sinners? Or they are not? You can't have it both ways.

RIF

All sin is from the natural man. The man acting in the spirit does not sin.

Nice try. But this doesn't address whether Scripture says that any sin is natural. So a big NOPE.

 

[righteousdude2]

I Cooked the Steak to Your Liking, and....

Yep. Ain't no need to try to convince me that Scripture says something it does not.

Yes because we know that you are the arbiter and the measurer of how sinful all things are.

Deal with the unfaithfulness inside the church. those outside the church are acting as sinners should and have an excuse. We don't.

Furthermore, if they are married that makes them adulterers, and if they are simply shacking up, that makes them fornicators!

SEE: http://homochild.wordpress.com/2012...heterosexual-couples-what-the-statistics-say/



Numbers may not lie. But people sure do. Could one of you BIBLICAL scholars please present to us one act of sin that Scripture says is natural?

....you still found it offensive and not like you said you liked it!

I am asking again, why the moderators allow this member to continue to ride the range of this board, while he fails to share anything other than insults, and half truths. Furthermore, he continues to be the biggest TROLL ever allowed to post on this board.

The members continue to object to his methods and his theology, and it seems like this person is in the wrong place. He's a fish out of water. He is unhappy with the majority of us, and apparently we cause him to stumble every time we present our opinions, especially about that....you know, objectionable sin!

So why do the moderators allow this to continue? I'd think that if this board was causing someone, anyone, to be so unhappy and so angry when they read our views, that we'd help him or her by cutting them loose from the board to help be free from us "Good old boy" approach to Scripture; back slapping each other; and purveyors of hate mongering?

Come on mods...he doesn't seem to get it. We are not going to change our views. He isn't going to change his slanted views on our threads and comments, and if the majority of us make him so uncomfortable and unhappy, and he refuses to move on, why not give him the nudge he seems to be desiring, deep within!

Maybe he'd be happier on a same-gender ministry board! One that doesn't call a sin a sin! One that applies Scripture as it is meant to be! One that doesn't mince words, and one that doesn't continuously cause him to get all riled up and ugly inside and out!

Let's give him a fresh start in 2014, and help him be stress free, less angry, less judgmental, and less hostile and insulting! :laugh:

As for me, I am putting this guy on the official ignore list! I am tired of his thumping of the same old drum. He's beaten a dead horse some many times, he's down to bones and dust! Enough is enough! Happy New Year brother...enjoy yourself, but, I will no longer be the one to cause you to stumble!

 

[saturneptune]

So, what is the argument?

We are in basic agreement. I think Zaac is more of a black and white person on issues and maybe we who are of the older generation see shades of gray. Thing is, we are all human. Every male has committed the sin of lust, married or unmarried, in his mind. And, for most of us, that sin in our mind or physically, was committed with a member of the opposite sex, so naturally, our sin is always not as bad as the other sin, in this case, the same sex preference. The reality is that the Bible strongly condemns both. When Zaac equates both sins equally, which in a sense they are, it appears to some he is defending same sex activity. In my secular mind, for example, same sex activity is disgusting, saved or lost, so no sin involved.

This reminds me of another thread about who to let into church for membership. We as Baptists have pet sins we love to harp on like drinking, dancing, gambling, movies, TV, etc. Most of the list have no Biblical foundation, and for the most part, the list was created by gossips, gluttons, and those who cannot mind their own business.

I do know that Pastor Paul has been a solid Scriptural poster on this board for years, and consider him a close friend.

 

[Revmitchell]

Zaac is always trying to make the case that the church places an unnecessary and stronger emphasis on things like homesxuality. That is where the difference come from.

However, in order to make that case one must ignore some facts. The homosexual agenda is political whereas other sins are not being pushed on the American people the homosexuality. Therefore it gets more attention from the Christian community and rightly so.