Do you speak Christianese?

[Snitzelhoff]

Originally posted by Ransom:
Marcia said:

Pascal (I think) said this, but I've never liked it nor have I used the phrase. It sounds like we all have a need that God can fill, which makes it seem like therapy or something.

He did but he didn't - the sentiment is certainly part of his theology (as it was Augustine's - and Pascal was very Augustinian in his thinking) though he never actually used the phrase "God-shaped hole" or "God-shaped vacuum" as far as I can tell.

But Pascal wasn't saying that we all have a need that God can fill. Quite the opposite, in fact: what he said was that every man has a need of God, even though in his unbelief, being prejudiced against God, he attempts to fill that need with a variety of substitutes, be it sex, food, idolatry, or whatever. See Pensée #425.

I wasn't so much picking on the principle of the cliche (that we need God) as the phrase itself. It's so overworn, and that was the topic of the thread. "Was," of course, is the key word since now it's been reduced to debate about altar calls.

Michael

 

[JackRUS]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
I want every head bowed and every eye closed. If there is anyone here who doesn't know the Lord as their savior and would like to have a personal relationship with him, would you please raise you hand right now and simply put it back down. There's one and yes you in the balcony. I see you too. God bless you brother. Now if you just raised your hand, I am going to ask you to repeat this prayer with me (insert sinners prayer here). Now as the pianist and organist play and we sing 400 verses of Just As I Am, I am going to ask you to come down here and if you just prayed that prayer to make your decision public. If you are still not sure and need to talk to someone about it, I hope you will come down and talk to us. Please don't wait for tommorow. Who knows what tommorow may bring. You may never see tommorow. Do it while we sing, because 12:15 is my personal time and we will be getting to the restaraunt as soon as the service is over.

I have heard it so many times, I just about have it memorized by now.

Joseph Botwinick

If you think that's funny, how about the Calvinist version of what a lost man must hear or know before conversion?

Here it is demonstrated between the brackets:

[ ]

That's it folks. If you are a member of the elect that is. Conversion and then faith.

Now that's funny! (or is it? )

 

[whatever]

No, it's not funny. Comedy is harder than it looks.

 

[JackRUS]

Originally posted by whatever:
No, it's not funny. Comedy is harder than it looks.

True.

So let's make the distinction here:

Calvin the non-comedian

Calvin the comedian

However, sometimes I find the musings of John Calvin funnier than that of Calvin.

 

[Ransom]

Let us know when you decide to stop being lame.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by J.D.:
Then go ahead and pray honestly "...Lord, not thy will be done, but mine".

If you are living as His disciple in Kingdom life, then your desires will be pleasing to God.

You can effectively pray for your will to be done since it is also within God's permissive will.

 

[epistemaniac]

re the complaint about the "God-shaped hole" etc... Augustine said it like this...

"Great art Thou, O Lord, and greatly to be praised; great is Thy power, and Thy wisdom infinite. And Thee would man praise; man, but a particle of Thy creation; man, that bears about him his mortality, the witness of his sin, the witness that Thou resistest the proud: yet would man praise Thee; he, but a particle of Thy creation. Thou awakest us to delight in Thy praise; for Thou madest us for Thyself, and our heart is restless, until it repose in Thee.
(Confessions, Book 1, I)

it seems they might have based this on the following passage:

Ecc 3:11 NLT God has made everything beautiful for its own time. He has planted eternity in the human heart, but even so, people cannot see the whole scope of God's work from beginning to end."

man has a sense of eternity "built-in" so to speak, time constantly surprises us... as if we were not really made to be in time... how often do we give expression to the fact that the passing of time constantly surprises is? saying things like "has it really been that long?" "my how time flies" or when we haven't seen a child for a little bit we are surprised at their growth and how time has slipped away so quickly... Peter Kreeft talks about how unusual this is by using the analogy of asking a fish how it feels to be wet... if the fish could talk, it would probably not really be able to answer, because being wet is all it has ever known, it is the fish's natural environment... so the fish is used to it, it lives out it's life in this way not really aware that there is such a thing as not being wet... humans, it seems, ought to be the same with the passage of time, we "swim around in it", we, experientially anyway, know nothing else... yet we never quite get used to time, Kreeft says that this is a clue to our eternal nature .....

This having eternity "planted in our hearts" also seems to include a sense of God, so, I do not agree that this cliche is one of the inane cliches that does make up much of Christianese... it seems to have genuine biblical support... man does seem to sense that he is incomplete in a way that no earthly or natural relationship is ever totally satisfying, we sense that there is a God, and even secular scientists have realized that man is incurably religious.... this sense of God is universal, Calvin called it the sensus deitatis, but fallen man suppresses this knowledge as much as they possibly can, distorting it:
Rom 1:19-21 esv For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
(20) For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
(21) For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened."

As Paul goes on to say in this passage from Romans 1, man fills this emptiness with every manner of sin, descending to ever greater sins, as Calvin noted, mankind's nature is such that we are "idol factories", making an idol out of anything rather than to bow before the one true God.... we create idols, but they never seem to satisfy, this seems to be because God has formed us for Himself, and our hearts are restless until they find their rest in Him....

blessings,
Ken

[ May 15, 2006, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: epistemaniac ]

 

[Alcott]

I have seen many times that a professed, baptized, believer, went forward again with some explanation that "I didn't really know what I was doing" the first time, so he's got to do it all over again. Alright, if there was no manipulation going on, why did he go forward and get baptized the first time? Or else, is it not manipulation going on this time, to convince him that he wasn't sincere the first time? For one of those occasions-- at least-- manipulation seems to be the only answer for what happened.

 

[bapmom]

Alcott,

why do you think it would have to be manipulation at any point? perhaps the person just misunderstood?

let me add though, what if the person went forward at first in order to please someone else? Does that mean he was manipulated? Not necessarily. My child might do something to try to please me, but that does not mean that I manipulated my child into doing that.

 

[bapmom]

to answer the OP.......

I try to avoid "invite Jesus into your heart". Mainly because I work with mentally handicapped alot and I can only imagine what they might think when they hear that phrase!

Especially when witnessing, I try to avoid some of the cliches we use. I try to state the gospel in as clear a way possible, but not using those pat phrases that over done.

 

[Pipedude]

I've always gotten a grin out of "lead, guide, and direct."

 

[dh1948]

Early on in my ministry it was customary for pastors to be addressed as "Elder" so-and-so. I hated that. I always associated it with the guys who ride bikes around while wearing white shirts and black ties.

I seldom use the designation "brother" when speaking to/of another Christian man. I never use the word "sister." Makes me think I am referring to a nun!

Like others have posted, "lead, guide and direct" is a redundancy I try to avoid.

How about this one, "God be with us today?" Is it really necessary to ask that God be with us. After all, it is a settled matter. He IS with us...always.

Christianese is not only a choice of words, but it is also a tone of voice.

Here's another one..."Gawd" = God. (Heard most often when some folks pray.)That drives me crazy.

Here's one more...I have a pastor friend who repeats the name God, or Heavenly Father, over and over when he prays. Forgive me for saying so, but I once counted the number of times when he did this during a 90 second prayer. He used the name God or Heavenly Father 15 times during that prayer. That's once every 6 seconds!

 

[Alcott]

Originally posted by bapmom:
why do you think it would have to be manipulation at any point? perhaps the person just misunderstood?

If the person professed a 'decision' because of misunderstanding, how could there not be manipulation involved? Something motivated him/her to claim that decision.

let me add though, what if the person went forward at first in order to please someone else? Does that mean he was manipulated?

I say Yes.

My child might do something to try to please me, but that does not mean that I manipulated my child into doing that.

Maybe not intentionally every time. For some reason, though, the child thinks you would be pleased if he/she did this particular act. Manipulation may come from many sources, but they come together in the mind of the person who carries out the action in question.

 

[Revmitchell]

Accusing men of God whom you dont know of manipulation is ungodly, evil, and sinnful, as well as unnecessary.

 

[Alcott]

Perhaps you should avoid doing such, then, little revvy.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I stand by my earlier comment that the "every eye closed, every head bowed" routine is manipulative. That doesn't mean it is done out of ill will. Perhaps the manipulator feels it is worth doing to get a person to that point. Or maybe it puffs them up with another notch on their belt. I think that some preachers don't feel they have been successful without a salvation happening with every sermon.

Another "Christianese" thing I can't stand is preachers adding the syllable "uh" after every other word. "Gawd-uh, wants you-uh, to come-uh to the foot of the cross-uh, and lay down-uh your burden-uh."

 

[Alcott]

"...-uh" IMO is just a characteristic deficiency of our modern speech pattern. That plus adding "you know" to so many statements the speaker is not very positive about, plus the idea that most sentences should start with "Well..." or "Okay..." are a few of these outstanding examples of such deficiencies.

As for the "Christianese" version of speech deficiencies, one I would add is going from one topic or subtopic to the next by deliberately not pausing and beginning with "Now...." so as to not allow the hearer a chance to think about-- let alone comment on or cross-examine-- what has just been concluded, but rather to assume it as fact in going to the next point. I was once in a class taught by a pastor who did that, and it grew so that I finally started interrupting him anyway at times, noticing the flash of anger on his face when I did that.

 

[Ransom]

"...-uh" IMO is just a characteristic deficiency of our modern speech pattern.

MP isn't talking about filling out pauses with sounds like "Uhhhh." He's speaking of a particular affectation that is especially characteristic of Southern preachers to lengthen significant words by appending a syllable "uh" to them. It's more like an audible form of punctuation.

The most famous example would probably be Jimmy Swaggart, I think.

Along the same lines: Preachers who audibly suck in a lungful of wind after every few words.

 

[Gina B]

I'll have a good wind sucking link later, right now no time, but there's a HILARIOUS one from Ohio.

In the meantime, here's a fake cry/guilt trip invitation. The fake cry thing might have been right before the invitation? I forget.

My favorite part is "you aughta be ASHAAAAAAMMMMEEDDD!"

http://www.bethelmissionarybaptist.com/2004sermons

Click on the 3rd one down, Preacher Waldroup, "He must Rise Again" Start at 32:30

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Originally posted by Ransom:
"...-uh" IMO is just a characteristic deficiency of our modern speech pattern.

MP isn't talking about filling out pauses with sounds like "Uhhhh." He's speaking of a particular affectation that is especially characteristic of Southern preachers to lengthen significant words by appending a syllable "uh" to them. It's more like an audible form of punctuation.

The most famous example would probably be Jimmy Swaggart, I think.

Along the same lines: Preachers who audibly suck in a lungful of wind after every few words.

Yes, Ransom, that is what I am talking about. Hard to convey it in typography, but you got it!