Do you think it is relevant that the evil spirits know Jesus and the disciples did not?

[loDebar]

Mar 1:23
And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,
Mar 1:24
Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
Mar 1:25
And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.

Luk 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26
Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Some did recognize Him as Christ

Mat 16:14
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
Mat 16:15
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

What is the difference,? I can only speculate

 

[Scarlett O.]

Relevant? I don't know.

Evil spirits had once been in with God from their creation as angels. Once Lucifer fell and took one-third of the angels with him, they became demonic forces. Evil spirits. Unclean spirits. There purpose seemingly is to torment humanity. But they had once been in the presence of God - knowing exactly who he is, seeing him in his full glory and power, and yet choosing the devil.

They recognized Jesus as God and God's Son because this was not their first time to be in his presence. And they apparently know their future fate.

The disciples, having never been in the presence of divinity before and seeing Jesus in the form of a man, struggled with understanding who he was. Over and over the bible says, they "didn't understand" or "wouldn't ask him what he meant". Even Peter, who confessed who Jesus was via the power of God didn't fully get it until after the Resurrection.

 

[loDebar]

Good answer, but Simeon and Anna knew Jesus as the Messiah. The Magi knew Him as King,

 

[1689Dave]

Mar 1:23
And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,
Mar 1:24
Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
Mar 1:25
And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.

Luk 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26
Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Some did recognize Him as Christ

Mat 16:14
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
Mat 16:15
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

What is the difference,? I can only speculate

I have a couple of books by Michel Heiser. One called the "Unseen Realm" offers fresh clues into the cause of Demons. Following is a synopsis from the book.


Question 74. What is the origin of demons?


Demons are the disembodied spirits of dead Nephilim.a;83 They are therefore by nature disembodied, which is why they seek to inhabit other things.b

a Num 13:33. And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim).

Deut 2:11. Like the Anakim they are also counted as Rephaim, but the Moabites call them Emim.

Deut 3:13. The rest of Gilead, and all Bashan, the kingdom of Og, that is, all the region of Argob, I gave to the half-tribe of Manasseh. (All that portion of Bashan is called the land of Rephaim.)

Isa 14:9. Sheol beneath is stirred up to meet you when you come; it rouses the shades (rephaim) to greet you, all who were leaders of the earth; it raises from their thrones all who were kings of the nations.

Isa 26:14. They are dead, they will not live; they are shades (rephaim), they will not arise; to that end you have visited them with destruction and wiped out all remembrance of them.


b Matt 8:28. And when he came to the other side, to the country of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men met him, coming out of the tombs.

Matt 12:28, 43–45. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.… When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, but finds none. Then it says, “I will return to my house from which I came.” And when it comes, it finds the house empty, swept, and put in order. Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself.

Mark 5:10–13. And he begged him earnestly not to send them out of the country. Now a great herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside, and they begged him, saying, “Send us to the pigs; let us enter them.” So he gave them permission. And the unclean spirits came out and entered the pigs; and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the sea.


Van Dorn, D. (2015). The Unseen Realm: A Question & Answer Companion. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.

 

[loDebar]

Demons are the disembodied spirits of dead Nephilim.a;83 They are therefore by nature disembodied, which is why they seek to inhabit other things.b

This is strange to me, although they do not have bodies, they never had bodies, The connection with the Nephallim is conjecture without scripture reference.

 

[1689Dave]

“The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (and also after this) when the sons of God were having sexual relations with the daughters of humankind, who gave birth to their children. They were the mighty heroes of old, the famous men.” (Genesis 6:4) (NET)

“And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.”” (Numbers 13:33) (ESV)

 

[OnlyaSinner]

Good answer, but Simeon and Anna knew Jesus as the Messiah. The Magi knew Him as King,

The Centurian at the cross (Mark 15:39) is another example. God reveals Himself as He chooses.

 

[TCassidy]

“The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (and also after this) when the sons of God (descendants of Seth) were having marrying the daughters of men (descendants of Cain), who gave birth to their children. They (the children) were the mighty heroes of old, the famous men.” (Genesis 6:4)

“And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.”” (Numbers 13:33)

נְפִילִים - a derivative of the Hebrew verb root n-ph-l (נ־פ־ל) "fall" - a Hiphil causative stem meaning that the nephilim are "those that cause others to fall down" IE great warriors, men of renown, or famous warriors.

 

[loDebar]

“The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (and also after this) when the sons of God were having sexual relations with the daughters of humankind, who gave birth to their children. They were the mighty heroes of old, the famous men.” (Genesis 6:4) (NET)

“And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.”” (Numbers 13:33) (ESV)

What is the connection between Nephalim and evil spirits?

 

[1689Dave]

What is the connection between Nephalim and evil spirits?

 

[loDebar]

“The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (and also after this) when the sons of God (descendants of Seth) were having marrying the daughters of men (descendants of Cain), who gave birth to their children. They (the children) were the mighty heroes of old, the famous men.” (Genesis 6:4)

“And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.”” (Numbers 13:33)

נְפִילִים - a derivative of the Hebrew verb root n-ph-l (נ־פ־ל) "fall" - a Hiphil causative stem meaning that the nephilim are "those that cause others to fall down" IE great warriors, men of renown, or famous warriors.

earth bound,, what is the connection with evil spirits?

 

[Scarlett O.]

Good answer, but Simeon and Anna knew Jesus as the Messiah. The Magi knew Him as King,

The Magi knew he was king because because they knew of prophecy, but primarily because God's star literally pointed to him. If 10 babies were put in their presence, they could not have picked him out. The star led the way and then stopped over where Jesus was.

Simeon knew because the Holy Spirit told him that he would see the Messiah and the Holy Spirit moved him to the Temple that day for that purpose. As the Magi had been led by the star, knowing whom they were looking for, Simeon, knowing whom he was looking for was led by the Holy Spirit. Anna knew, because the bible says she was a prophet and she heard Simeon reveal who Jesus was and went over "at that very moment." Anna was also looking for the "redemption of Israel".

The Magi, Simeon, and Anna knew whom they were looking for. God supernaturally revealed Jesus to them as the king, the Messiah, the redemption of Israel. All by themselves, they would have never recognized him.

The demons had been in his presence before.

The disciples, Jesus' own family, the Jewish leadership, Pilate, Herod, and others had no idea of who Jesus was. Some had a preconceived and incorrect understanding of Messiah and others had no idea God was even real let alone sending a Messiah.

 

[1689Dave]

What is the connection between Nephalim and evil spirits?

Heiser says when the Nephilim died, they became the evil spirits or demons. Not being fully human, nor fully angelic, They roam the earth seeking bodies to alleviate their torment. = my take on what he said. But it's a good book that might help answer some questions.

 

[TCassidy]

What is the connection between Nephalim and evil spirits?

There is none. It is a made up "doctrine" to avoid the obvious implications of what happens when the saved (sons of God) are unequally yoked in marriage with the unsaved (daughters of men).

That breakdown removes God's hand of blessing from the family which results in violence, hate, rebellion, and war, and raises to fame those offspring who commit such violence.

Kind of reminds you of today, doesn't it?

 

[1689Dave]

There is none. It is a made up "doctrine" to avoid the obvious implications of what happens when the saved (sons of God) are unequally yoked in marriage with the unsaved (daughters of men).

That breakdown removes God's hand of blessing from the family which results in violence, hate, rebellion, and war, and raises to fame those offspring who commit such violence.

Kind of reminds you of today, doesn't it?

I know the Reformed believe this way. And it has some strong points. But it doesn't explain why Giants resulted from the marriage.

 

[loDebar]

There is none. It is a made up "doctrine" to avoid the obvious implications of what happens when the saved (sons of God) are unequally yoked in marriage with the unsaved (daughters of men).

That breakdown removes God's hand of blessing from the family which results in violence, hate, rebellion, and war, and raises to fame those offspring who commit such violence.

Kind of reminds you of today, doesn't it?

the "sons of God" are not saved in any usage except becoming "sons" when accepting Jesus.

the "sons of God" are the fallen angels"

 

[loDebar]

The Magi knew he was king because because they knew of prophecy, but primarily because God's star literally pointed to him. If 10 babies were put in their presence, they could not have picked him out. The star led the way and then stopped over where Jesus was.

Simeon knew because the Holy Spirit told him that he would see the Messiah and the Holy Spirit moved him to the Temple that day for that purpose. As the Magi had been led by the star, knowing whom they were looking for, Simeon, knowing whom he was looking for was led by the Holy Spirit. Anna knew, because the bible says she was a prophet and she heard Simeon reveal who Jesus was and went over "at that very moment." Anna was also looking for the "redemption of Israel".

The Magi, Simeon, and Anna knew whom they were looking for. God supernaturally revealed Jesus to them as the king, the Messiah, the redemption of Israel. All by themselves, they would have never recognized him.

The demons had been in his presence before.

The disciples, Jesus' own family, the Jewish leadership, Pilate, Herod, and others had no idea of who Jesus was. Some had a preconceived and incorrect understanding of Messiah and others had no idea God was even real let alone sending a Messiah.

I think the connection is they believe God . Most humans don't

 

[TCassidy]

the "sons of God" are the fallen angels"

No, the sons of God are the sons of God, not demons or of the devil. The parallel nature of that portion of Genesis is obvious. The descendants of Cain are contrasted with the descendants of Seth, resulting in the breakdown of God's command to be separate from inequity, and the great evil that resulted.

There is absolutely no exegetical reason to identify the "sons of God" with demons.

 

[TCassidy]

I know the Reformed believe this way. And it has some strong points. But it doesn't explain why Giants resulted from the marriage.

The nephilim were not physical giants. They were giants of reputation, "men of renown" - great warriors.

Remember that all this takes place before the flood of Noah. Unless you think the progenitors of Anak stowed away on the Ark, then Anak and his descendants were simply on the large end of normal human variation.

(My daughter is 5'6" - her husband is 5'10" - their 18 year old son is 6'4" and their 15 year old son is 6'3" - normal variation in the human genome.)

 

[loDebar]

No, the sons of God are the sons of God, not demons or of the devil. The parallel nature of that portion of Genesis is obvious. The descendants of Cain are contrasted with the descendants of Seth, resulting in the breakdown of God's command to be separate from inequity, and the great evil that resulted.

There is absolutely no exegetical reason to identify the "sons of God" with demons.

nope

psalms 82

fallen angels= demons=evil spirits