Do you think it is relevant that the evil spirits know Jesus and the disciples did not?

[1689Dave]

The nephilim were not physical giants. They were giants of reputation, "men of renown" - great warriors.

“And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.”” (Numbers 13:33) (ESV)


5872 נְפִילִים (nep̄î·lîm): n.pr. [oth n.masc.pl. ]; ≡ Str 5303; TWOT 1393a—LN 93-pers. (gent.) Nephilim: a renown race of giants (Ge 6:4; Nu 13:33(2×)+), note: whether this race was a spirit-human race, or godly-ungodly race is debated among theologians

Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Hebrew (Old Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

 

[TCassidy]

nope

psalms 82

fallen angels= demons=evil spirits

Yep. But there is no exegetical reason to think the "sons of God" are not "sons of God" but "sons of the devil."

Psa 82:1 A Psalm by Asaph. God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the judges.
Psa 82:2 “How long will you judge unjustly, and show partiality to the wicked?” Selah.
Psa 82:3 “Defend the weak, the poor, and the fatherless. Maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
Psa 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy. Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.”
Psa 82:5 They don’t know, neither do they understand. They walk back and forth in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
Psa 82:6 I said, “You are mighty, all of you are sons of the Most High.
Psa 82:7 Nevertheless you shall die like men, and fall like one of the rulers.”
Psa 82:8 Arise, God, judge the earth, for you inherit all of the nations.

 

[TCassidy]

note: whether this race was a spirit-human race, or godly-ungodly race is debated among theologians

Not among those who can recognize a Hebrew Hiphil Causative when they see it.

 

[kyredneck]

the "sons of God" are the fallen angels"

Perhaps those in Gen 6 were 'fallen', but I would think the entire host of heaven could be considered as 'sons of God', both good and evil.

6 Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan also came among them. Job 1
1 Again it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan came also among them to present himself before Jehovah. Job 2

[add]

19 And Micaiah said, Therefore hear thou the word of Jehovah: I saw Jehovah sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
20 And Jehovah said, Who shall entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner; and another said on that manner.
21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before Jehovah, and said, I will entice him.
22 And Jehovah said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt entice him, and shalt prevail also: go forth, and do so.
23 Now therefore, behold, Jehovah hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets; and Jehovah hath spoken evil concerning thee. 1 Ki 22

 

[1689Dave]

Not among those who can recognize a Hebrew Hiphil Causative when they see it.

Isn't it a matter of reading the text as a metaphor or literally?

“There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.” (Genesis 6:4) (KJV 1900)

 

[loDebar]

Yep. But there is no exegetical reason to think the "sons of God" are not "sons of God" but "sons of the devil."

Psa 82:1 A Psalm by Asaph. God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the judges.
Psa 82:2 “How long will you judge unjustly, and show partiality to the wicked?” Selah.
Psa 82:3 “Defend the weak, the poor, and the fatherless. Maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
Psa 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy. Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.”
Psa 82:5 They don’t know, neither do they understand. They walk back and forth in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
Psa 82:6 I said, “You are mighty, all of you are sons of the Most High.
Psa 82:7 Nevertheless you shall die like men, and fall like one of the rulers.”
Psa 82:8 Arise, God, judge the earth, for you inherit all of the nations.

there are no sons of the devil.. except Jews who "of your father the devil"

What is your versions? You are "elohyim" the sames as gods used other places.

Quoted by Jesus in John 10 talking to those trying to kill him.

 

[loDebar]

The nephilim were not physical giants. They were giants of reputation, "men of renown" - great warriors.

Remember that all this takes place before the flood of Noah. Unless you think the progenitors of Anak stowed away on the Ark, then Anak and his descendants were simply on the large end of normal human variation.

(My daughter is 5'6" - her husband is 5'10" - their 18 year old son is 6'4" and their 15 year old son is 6'3" - normal variation in the human genome.)

The Septuagint Greek has giagantes ? for nephillim or earth bound. It has been mis-transliterated giant

 

[loDebar]

Perhaps those in Gen 6 were 'fallen', but I would think the entire host of heaven could be considered as 'sons of God', both good and evil.

6 Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan also came among them. Job 1
1 Again it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan came also among them to present himself before Jehovah. Job 2

[add]

19 And Micaiah said, Therefore hear thou the word of Jehovah: I saw Jehovah sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
20 And Jehovah said, Who shall entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner; and another said on that manner.
21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before Jehovah, and said, I will entice him.
22 And Jehovah said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt entice him, and shalt prevail also: go forth, and do so.
23 Now therefore, behold, Jehovah hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets; and Jehovah hath spoken evil concerning thee. 1 Ki 22

We are all sons of god,, some are fallen, some are not

 

[Yeshua1]

Good answer, but Simeon and Anna knew Jesus as the Messiah. The Magi knew Him as King,

Did they know Him as God?

 

[loDebar]

Did they know Him as God?

I do not know,, I think Messiah

Luk 2:25
And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
Luk 2:26
And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
Luk 2:27
And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
Luk 2:28
Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
Luk 2:29
Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
Luk 2:30
For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
Luk 2:31
Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
Luk 2:32
A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.


The Magi worshiped Him

Mat 2:11

And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

 

[Yeshua1]

I do not know,, I think Messiah

Luk 2:25
And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
Luk 2:26
And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
Luk 2:27
And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
Luk 2:28
Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
Luk 2:29
Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
Luk 2:30
For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
Luk 2:31
Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
Luk 2:32
A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.


The Magi worshiped Him

Mat 2:11

And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

both those 2 who knew Jesus as Messiah while a baby, and peter, had God Himself reveal that truth to them... Unless that happened, people would see jesus as basically a prophet/king/ or a false prophet/messiah only...

 

[loDebar]

both those 2 who knew Jesus as Messiah while a baby, and peter, had God Himself reveal that truth to them... Unless that happened, people would see jesus as basically a prophet/king/ or a false prophet/messiah only...

I suppose so, the Holy Spirit does reveal Him to us,

 

[TCassidy]

The Septuagint Greek has giagantes ?

Yes. The LXX is wrong.

for nephillim or earth bound.

No, it means "one who causes others to fall (in battle)."

It has been mis-transliterated giant

The OT was not translated nor transliterated from Latin. I comes from Hebrew.

 

[TCassidy]

Isn't it a matter of reading the text as a metaphor or literally?

No it is a matter of reading the word for what it means instead of reading it from a poor translation.

 

[loDebar]

Yes. The LXX is wrong.

No, it means "one who causes others to fall (in battle)."

The OT was not translated nor transliterated from Latin. I comes from Hebrew.

No, From Greek to English

 

[TCassidy]

No, From Greek to English

Name some English bibles translated from the LXX. There is only one I am aware of and it is pretty useless.

 

[loDebar]

The Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon (1906) gives the meaning of nephilim as "giants", and holds that proposed etymologies of the word are "all very precarious".[3] Many suggested interpretations are based on the assumption that the word is a derivative of Hebrew verbal root n-ph-l (נ־פ־ל) "fall". Robert Baker Girdlestone[4] argued in 1871 the word comes from the Hiphil causative stem, implying that the nephilim are to be perceived as "those that cause others to fall down". Ronald Hendel states that it is a passive form "ones who have fallen", grammatically analogous to paqid "one who is appointed" (i.e., overseer), asir"one who is bound" (i.e., prisoner), etc.[5][6]

The majority of ancient biblical versions—including the Septuagint, Theodotion, Latin Vulgate, Samaritan Targum, Targum Onkelos, and Targum Neofiti—interpret the word to mean "giants".[7] Symmachustranslates it as "the violent ones"[8][9][10] and Aquila's translation has been interpreted to mean either "the fallen ones"[8] or "the ones falling [upon their enemies]".[10][11]

I cannot find the reference for Gaia gantes or earth bound

The similar word sounds were transliterated from the Sept, to eventually as the English giants

 

[loDebar]

found this:

In 250 BC. the Rabbis that wrote the Septuagint which is a Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures. They changed the word Nephillim to giant, which is the word most translations currently have (giant in Greek gigentes implies earth born men of great stature Num.13:33 ). This was a significant change which has obscured the meaning even to today. While some contend they are still around in the time of Numbers the giants were not the same species of the Nephilim. Since the Nephils were not Giant in size but in strength, intelligence and ability.

 

[tyndale1946]

I'll digress for a minute and just address the OP... Here's a group of fellas who wished they never heard of an evil spirit... This just tickles me every time I read it... Seems they got more than they could handle... Looks like those just like them got the message... Brother Glen

Acts 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

19:14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.

19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

19:17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

19:18 And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds.

19:19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.

19:20 So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.

 

[1689Dave]

No it is a matter of reading the word for what it means instead of reading it from a poor translation.

Either way, it is metaphor vs literal. And I can see it both ways without being dogmatic.