Doctor told to list cause of death as covid 19

[Revmitchell]

Ummm...yes, I absolutely know that. A person with asthma goes to the ER with shortness of breath, coughing and has lost the sense of smell. Classic Covid-19 symptoms. The person is tested and found to have Covid-19. The person is hospitalized and subsequently dies. The cause of death is classified as Covid-19. Why would you have a problem with this?

Uh....no you dont. You site one hypothetical and then act as if it is slwsys the case everytime someone dies and has covid. I posted a thread that had the doctor saying that covid 19 should never be listed as a cause of death just as influenza is never listed as a cause of death. Further, not everyone that has covid and dies does do because of covid.

What I have a problem with is faulty models and inflated numbers used to control people. While there are people who die from covid that is not evidence that the numbers are not inflated.

 

[church mouse guy]

The point is that death certificates all over the USA are not really scientific just as we really don't have a truly scientific percentage for a death rate. I think that we would be happier if we just take these statistics with a grain of salt. Another problem is that our press is made up of poorly educated journalists who think that they are wiser than they are. The truth is that we have done very well considering that we were unprepared in every respect except that we have a free system that allows our citizens to respond quickly and well. Our only weapons have been cleanliness and social distancing and sound advice from French experts about treatment. If we had had N95 masks for everyone, we would have defeated this medically and economically much easier.

The death certificate problem will never be fixed because it is humanly impossible to fix. If we had infinite economic and scientific resources perhaps we could do autopsies on everyone but even that would not always tell us why someone died. So for decades our doctors have given a reason and we have accepted it because we know that a person died of sickness and not foul play and we know that there are limits to our ability to determine what is the exact sickness. Probably the numbers are inflated but even at that, the USA has beaten back every model of expectation.

 

[Scott Downey]

Regular Influenza is a major killer every year all over the world. Kills by the same action as Covid - 19, by pneumonia caused by the body's own immune system creating a cytokine storm. They lump them all under covid with no testing to verify the patient had covid, and why would they? To justify the economic shutdown and millions of jobs lost, because this virus was projected to kill millions and so far the model has been wrong by a 10 fold factor. So they would look pretty foolish , and they try to cover up the truth.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Regular Influenza is a major killer every year all over the world. Kills by the same action as Covid - 19, by pneumonia caused by the body's own immune system creating a cytokine storm. They lump them all under covid with no testing to verify the patient had covid, and why would they? To justify the economic shutdown and millions of jobs lost, because this virus was projected to kill millions and so far the model has been wrong by a 10 fold factor. So they would look pretty foolish , and they try to cover up the truth.

Post #5 in this thread already addresses this flawed argument that is based on fiction. If Covid cases are just influenza mislabeled, this has been an epic influenza season that would still have justified the shutdown. Because even if you try to hide the disease label for your political purposes, you cannot hide the number of people affected.

 

[InTheLight]

To justify the economic shutdown and millions of jobs lost, because this virus was projected to kill millions and so far the model has been wrong by a 10 fold factor. So they would look pretty foolish , and they try to cover up the truth.

Who is they?

 

[Benjamin]

You punch a frail old lady and she dies. You tell the judge that she didn't die because you punched but that she died because she was weak. Good luck with that strategy...

BTW, just heard Dr. Fauci say that such thinking amounts to the typical conspiracy theory scenario and that it was more likely that people dying at home were not being counted as COVID-19 than the other way around.

 

[church mouse guy]

You punch a frail old lady and she dies. You tell the judge that she didn't die because you punched but that she died because she was weak. Good luck with that strategy...

BTW, just heard Dr. Fauci say that such thinking amounts to the typical conspiracy theory scenario and that it was more likely that people dying at home were not being counted as COVID-19 than the other way around.

Do you think that the death certificates in any country are scientifically accurate? Do you think that we know the total number of cases well enough that we can calculate an exact rate of death scientifically? Doctors just write something--some doctors are Victorians. Doctors in Indiana are well-paid and often end up owning farms, a mark of wealth and prestige. The Chinese released a manufactured virus from a lab that was working on biological warfare and Americans will retaliate by never again buying anything from China. We need to check China militarily. Obama is gone, thankfully, and Biden is too addled with old age to be in charge of anything other than a bingo game. This would be even worse if Hillary were President because she has no compassion for people but calls people that she hates names such as deplorables, etc. We are in a biological war What is correct or incorrect about the statistics is a footnote. In my opinion, death certificates never have been and never will be 100% correct and squandering money on universal autopsies would not improve the situation. Humans do not have infinite powers in spite of what Bill Nye says.

 

[Wingman68]

Ummm....they are only down because the flu deaths are falsely being counted as covid 19 deaths

Ummmm.........do I still have to enunciate sarc on my snarky posts? Guess so.

 

[church mouse guy]

Ummmm.........do I still have to enunciate sarc on my snarky posts? Guess so.

Well, you know I took you as correct that flu is down because that map of the fever shows fever down below normal everywhere except in the hotspots. I have been watching conservative genius Bill Whittle on YouTube and he thinks that the drop in fever indicates that this thing has peaked but my doctor's office told me today that Indiana is expected to peak on April 16. A General working at the Hudson Institute, which was in Indianapolis for a short few years, says that the Chinese communist party was working on biological weapons when this one escaped their dirty lab. I have full confidence in the Hudson, having met a couple of them thirty years ago.

Only Taiwan had the full measure of the depravity of the mainland Chinese communists and they had N95 masks for everyone and they were able to keep their everything in their society open and functioning, including schools and restaurants. They lost about one person per million population. Everyone gets one new mask a week and it is tracked on a computer so that it is not corrupt like a Democrat-run election.

 

[Benjamin]

Do you think that we know the total number of cases well enough that we can calculate an exact rate of death scientifically?

You probably don't want to know what I think because I tell it like I see it BUT what I think is some people are panicking about the economy and are trying to come up ways to discount the reality of the potential of this disease along with being willing to sacrifice many lives for their love of money and comfort. I'm sorry to say that I find that un-Christian. These same people are in denial and on a mission of contradicting our top experts and are also doing it because of hyper political activism and in doing so are a danger to society. Further, I would wager that these same people, if another wave of this disease were take over and start killing millions of our people would be the first ones to scream that we didn’t do enough to stop it.

 

[KenH]

I'm sorry to say that I find that un-Christian.

Do you also consider it to be "un-Christian" to crash an economy that could have ramifications far into the future with poor health, ruined lives, etc.? How do you think we can afford health care? How do you think we feed ourselves? This is 2020, not 1820. We can't have 330,000,000 million people living off the land or foraging in the trash and abandoned stores in the United States. I have no desire to see the United States actually become the TV series "The Walking Dead", minus the zombies.

 

[church mouse guy]

You probably don't want to know what I think because I tell it like I see it BUT what I think is some people are panicking about the economy and are trying to come up ways to discount the reality of the potential of this disease along with being willing to sacrifice many lives for their love of money and comfort. I'm sorry to say that I find that un-Christian. These same people are in denial and on a mission of contradicting our top experts and are also doing it because of hyper political activism and in doing so are a danger to society. Further, I would wager that these same people, if another wave of this disease were take over and start killing millions of our people would be the first ones to scream that we didn’t do enough to stop it.

Oh, I didn't make myself clear. I am Midwest--we obey the government now matter how stupid. I am just saying that their is no hard science on all this one way or another and never will be. I am a so-called essential worker although I just have a small potatoes job at an essential corporation so I myself am still working so I don't have to stay home and climb the walls and I am grateful for all that. And I do not want to restart the economy if it means more deaths. But if we are on the downhill part of this pandemic, then we need to get people back to work for obvious reasons.

This virus has been described as a manufacturing virus that escaped the Chinese biological warfare lab perhaps accidentally since it killed a million or more Chinese. It is considered to be a lab merger of HIV, Sars, and some virulent wild bat virus. Only Taiwan was prepared for this and escaped the brunt of the impact because they had N95 masks.

 

[Benjamin]

Do you also consider it to be "un-Christian" to crash an economy that could have ramifications far into the future with poor health, ruined lives, etc.? How do you think we can afford health care? How do you think we feed ourselves? This is 2020, not 1820. We can't have 330,000,000 million people living off the land or foraging in the trash and abandoned stores in the United States. I have no desire to see the United States actually become the TV series "The Walking Dead", minus the zombies.

Ken, the slippery slope aside, I think our top experts are taking all these things under consideration and have their priorities right. With that, I think a lot people have their priorities seriously messed up!

 

[KenH]

I think a lot people have their priorities seriously messed up!

I agree. The "we can't open the economy until there are no new COVID-19 cases or deaths" crowd have their priorities seriously messed up indeed.

 

[Benjamin]

I agree. The "we can't open the economy until there are no new COVID-19 cases or deaths" crowd have their priorities seriously messed up indeed.

Strawman much.

 

[KenH]

Strawman much.

Nope. Just telling it as I see it.

 

[Benjamin]

Nope. Just telling it as I see it.

Got it, you see strawman arguments.

 

[Wingman68]

You probably don't want to know what I think because I tell it like I see it BUT what I think is some people are panicking about the economy and are trying to come up ways to discount the reality of the potential of this disease along with being willing to sacrifice many lives for their love of money and comfort. I'm sorry to say that I find that un-Christian. These same people are in denial and on a mission of contradicting our top experts and are also doing it because of hyper political activism and in doing so are a danger to society. Further, I would wager that these same people, if another wave of this disease were take over and start killing millions of our people would be the first ones to scream that we didn’t do enough to stop it.

No matter what comes out about this you are choosing to ignore it all. Being judgemental is not a good Christian trait either. The picture that you paint is only a reality in your own mind. It doesn’t play. I’m tired of the casting games.

 

[KenH]

Got it, you see strawman arguments.

Funny.

 

[Revmitchell]

Fauci also touted model estimates that, at this point, are believed to be off about 90%. Further the knucklehead said we should never shake hands again. That fella has some rather extreme ideas.