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Doctrinal Differances
- Thread starter Berean
- Start date
Of course. So?
We please God by making disciples. A disciple is someone who is obedient.
yes it is. Unbelievers, by definition, are not obedient.
But none of that is really relevant here. The question is about the mandate of the church. Jesus told hte church to make disciples. He did not tell the church, as the church, to do these other things.
stilllearning
Active Member
Hi gb93433
You said........
This is not the case. The word disciple means student.
(A student of Christ, sitting at his feet, and learning.)
Not every Christian is a disciple. And as every day passes, fewer and fewer Christians, fall into this category.
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Remember the qualifications, that our Lord laid down, to be a disciple.....
(Hate your relatives), (Take up your cross daily and follow me), etc. etc.
This is why I disagree with the modern interpretation of Matthew 28:19.....
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”
I know that the word “teach” in this verses, could be translated disciple if you push it, but no way does it say to “make disciples”.
How can we force anybody, to be a student?
You said........
This is not the case. The word disciple means student.
(A student of Christ, sitting at his feet, and learning.)
Not every Christian is a disciple. And as every day passes, fewer and fewer Christians, fall into this category.
--------------------------------------------------
Remember the qualifications, that our Lord laid down, to be a disciple.....
(Hate your relatives), (Take up your cross daily and follow me), etc. etc.
This is why I disagree with the modern interpretation of Matthew 28:19.....
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”
I know that the word “teach” in this verses, could be translated disciple if you push it, but no way does it say to “make disciples”.
How can we force anybody, to be a student?
I don't dispute that. However, it is off topic here.
yes, and remember the penalty for those who don't: Lose your soul.
That shows us that these phrases "taking up your cross," etc are phrases that describe salvation, not some point after salvation.
That's exactly what it says ... make disciples.
You don't. That is the work of the Holy Spirit.
gb93433 said:
It could not be farther from the truth.
stilllearning
Active Member
Hi Pastor Larry
We will save the issue of “conditional discipleship”, for another day.
But your conclusion is clearly contradictory;
You said.........
But then you say.......
We can “teach”, and we should.
But we can’t “make disciples”; (Make people learn.)
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This word “Teach”(matheteuo), is found 4 times in the New Testament;
(2 times it’s translated “teach”), (1 time, “instruct”) and (1 time, “disciple”);
And this one time, that it is translated “disciple”, it is a noun, not a verb.......
Matthew 27:57
“When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus’ disciple:”
The KJV translators, got it right when they translated it “teach”.
We will save the issue of “conditional discipleship”, for another day.
But your conclusion is clearly contradictory;
You said.........
But then you say.......
We can “teach”, and we should.
But we can’t “make disciples”; (Make people learn.)
--------------------------------------------------
This word “Teach”(matheteuo), is found 4 times in the New Testament;
(2 times it’s translated “teach”), (1 time, “instruct”) and (1 time, “disciple”);
And this one time, that it is translated “disciple”, it is a noun, not a verb.......
Matthew 27:57
“When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus’ disciple:”
The KJV translators, got it right when they translated it “teach”.
matt wade said:
"most" are not even close to being liberal.
Revmitchell said:
Again, it depends on your perspective. I would consider most in my area to have stances that are more liberal than my own stances. One item in particular that stands out is the issue of drinking. Most SBC churches in my area don't have a problem with alcohol consumption.
matt wade said:
Well it appears you cannot speak to "most" churches in the state of Florida. I travel around the state to many different churches. I know many Pastors in the state. I have seen nothing to indicate such a notion.
Teaching is how disciples are made. To teach is to make disciples. To learn and follow is to be a disciple. God makes disciples through our teaching.
--------------------------------------------------
The noun form is used 261 times.
That depends on the translation used. The NASB, almost universally recognized as the literal translation, uses "disciple" all four times. The ESV uses it three times, as does the NIV.
No it's not. That use is an aorist passive indicative 3rd singular verb, which means "He was a disciple" or "He had become a disciple."
If you are going to talk Greek, take time to learn first (be a disciple).
I wouldn't quibble with that, but it is better translated as "make disciples."
Revmitchell said:
No..I can't. I never claimed to speak about most churches in the state of Florida. I can only speak about most churches in my area of Jacksonville. Also, a pastor's idea of what is acceptable can differ greatly from what the church believes. A pastor can believe drinking is wrong, yet the church as a whole can accept it as OK.
I think your definition of "most" is faulty. I was a resident of Jacksonville for almost 20 years and unless the SBC churches in the city have fallen off a cliff doctrinally in the ten years that I have been gone the larger percentage are as conservative as any IFB church I attended in Jax. Of course there are the exceptions such as Hendricks Ave. Baptist.matt wade said:
Mexdeaf said:
I don't agree with the doctrinal stances of most IFP churches in Jacksonville either
. Again, it's all about your perspective. Out of all the churches in Jacksonville (and there are a lot!), there are only 4-5 that hold the same doctrinal stances that I do.
Marcia
Active Member
gb93433 said:
First, Falwell's church is not in No. Va! :laugh: It's about 3 hrs. or more away. It is not in Northern Va. Northern Va is mostly the suburbs and outer suburbs of Wash DC. It's totally different from the rest of the state.
I think the SBC churches here are liberal because this area is very secular and "important" people are here and no one wants to be embarrassed by being too Christian.
Almost all churches here are liberal theologically. There are very few that are really biblical.
The county I lived in for 16 yrs. until last year, Arlington, right outside Wash DC, is 95% unchurched.
If that is truly the case then the biblical teaching about teaching is much different than standing up to preach from a pulpit and telling people about God's word from just a historical perspective.Pastor Larry said:
When I think of Jesus' teaching the disciples I think more of training. When he sent His disciples out two by two he was not just teaching from a pulpit but rather training them to trust God and be obedient.
However I would contend that one cannot truly teach unless he has been taught. A non-Christian can teach about Jesus and the Bible yet still not know God.