Doctrine of SANCTIFICATION

[trustitl]

Even the unsaved self-righteous consider themselves without sin. Consider the Pharisee praying before the temple in Luke 18. He, in contrast to the publican, did not consider himself a sinner.

I never thought that the Pharisee considered himself to be without sin. The Pharisee is merely saying:
1. he is not as bad as the other guy "I thank thee, that I am not as other men"
and
2. that he has done enough to atone for his own sins. "I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess"

The point Jesus was making with this parable is not that we are all sinners, but rather that we are not to be like the Pharisees who rejected Him and "trusted in themselves that they were righteous"Luke 18:9

Nevertheless, the strength of the argument against entire sanctification lies in 1 John 1, where John, includes himself, when he says:

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Do you really have any argument against this Scripture?

Your leaving out verse 9 is very peculiar: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Your understanding of being cleansed from unrighteousness does not go as deep as what I think scripture does. You see it as a positional one only with no practical implications for this life. Your salvation is in the future while I understand it to be here and now. You do not see that those in Christ are no longer under the control of sin: "For sin shall not have dominion over you" Romans 6:14.

This appears to be another rehash of of what you two have wrestled about over and over again. HP will never convince DHK that a born again believer can actually go a day without sinning sin and DHK will never convince HP (or me for that matter) that we are stuck in this condition of being enslaved to sin until we die or Christ returns.

 

[Marcia]

I do not think as believers we are enslaved to sin, but we sin.

Sanctification is a process - the Holy Spirit conforming us to the image of Christ - we grow in it but I don't think we achieve the end result in our lifetimes.

 

[DHK]

This appears to be another rehash of of what you two have wrestled about over and over again. HP will never convince DHK that a born again believer can actually go a day without sinning sin and DHK will never convince HP (or me for that matter) that we are stuck in this condition of being enslaved to sin until we die or Christ returns.

1. Can you keep this command without fail, for a 24 hour period.

2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
--bringing every single thought of your mind to the obedience of Christ--all of them?

2. For a 24 hour period, for every second of your life, do you love your neighbor as your life? Can you honestly say that?

3. Can you honestly say that you have loved the Lord your God with all of your heart and strength for the past 24 hours. With all they physical strength that your body can endure, and with all the intellect that your mind can possibly muster for a 24 hour day, have you loved the Lord your God? Can you honestly say that?

If not, you have sinned.

Have you prayed without ceasing?
Have you rejoiced evermore; always?

Are you sure you have never sinned, not once for a 24 hour day?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: 1. Can you keep this command without fail, for a 24 hour period…


2. For a 24 hour period, for every second of your life, do you love your neighbor as your life? Can you honestly say that?...

3. Can you honestly say that you have loved the Lord your God with all of your heart and strength for the past 24 hours. …
If not, you have sinned.

Have you prayed without ceasing?
Have you rejoiced evermore; always?

Are you sure you have never sinned, not once for a 24 hour day?

HP: 1. I have no idea what command you are talking about, but there is no command a Just and Holy God requires out of His people that they do not have the ability with His proffered help to obey. God is no taskmaster. You paint a picture of God much in kind to the one the servant with only one talent drew.
Mt 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
2. Why do you add ‘for every second of your life?’ It simply shows that you are consistently trying to make out what God requires of man too hard to perform. Certainly all have failed at one tine or another in this matter. That is no indication that presently, with the help of the Holy Spirit that He does not come to our aide to bring every thought into captivity. Temptation to yield our wills in the direction of entertaining evil thoughts, and allowing that bird to build a nest is two completely different things. Every evil thought that might enter ones mind is not sin DHK. Temptation is not in and of itself sin. Yielding to temptation is sin. James points out the process clearly. Sin is not a mere passing thought that if dwelt on or allowed to fester to the point of the formation of selfish intents would indeed lead to sin.

God is able to keep our minds and hearts above every evil though if we will yield our wills completely to Him. If not, give us an illustration of a sin that God is unable to make a way of escape for you.
3. I can be every bit as mindful of loving my God with my whole heart as I can of loving my wife, my children or those God places in my pathway, including my enemies. God only requires of me that which I am able to perform. He asks me to love with all my abilities and strength, not with your abilities or that of another. God is able to witness to my heart that my love is pure and accepted before Him and that He loves me and that my thoughts and actions are pleasing to Him, by the indwelling Holy Spirit. He also is able to chastise us and increase our understanding where it needs to be increased. He simply expects me to listen and to be obedient to the light that is granted. If I fail, it is not due to some natural impossibility as you would have us believe, but rather is sin and only sin because I had the abilities and proffered help but may have refused to utilize it in a manner consistent with love. There is absolutely no reason why one has to fail, or should be expected to fail on a daily basis. Sin should be the abnormal, not the normal way of life for the believer. If one is finding sin to be the normal way of life on a daily basis, they are in dire need of God’s sanctifying power to establish them in a holy walk before Him.

Certainly the most pressing need in the Church today is for God to do a sanctifying work in the hearts and lives of the believer.

I believe that you have a false idea to the manner of love that God demands from His children. It is not all consuming drive that so overwhelms one that all they do is to focus on God 24/7 or pray ones knees 24/7. God know there are the mundane tasks of life and things we must accomplish that occupy our minds while doing them. To complete such tasks is not sin, nor do those tasks necessitate failing to pray without ceasing or fail to rejoice as required by God to the point of sin.


Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Whatever God requires of me is within that all, and God has made a way for us to go about life in a holy, righteous, and pleasing manner before Him in a consistent daily manner. Surely sin should be the unordinary not the ordinary way of like for the believer.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Marcia: I do not think as believers we are enslaved to sin, but we sin.

HP: It is one thing to testify of our own sin and quite another to place every believer on the same level as my own experience. I happen to believe that there are those today walking holy and pure before Him on a daily basis far above the plane of multitudes of believers. I believe God has allowed me to know some of these individuals intimately in my lifetime and for that I am blessed. We indeed have the right to confess to our sins but no man has the right to simply assume that all others are sinning because I am.

Marcia: Sanctification is a process - the Holy Spirit conforming us to the image of Christ - we grow in it but I don't think we achieve the end result in our lifetimes.

HP: Sanctification has to be accepted by faith. I would say that you can no more grow into sanctification than you can grow into salvation. Certainly there is a growth of knowledge that leads us to salvation as well as sanctification, but one must enter both by way of faith. There must be a point in time where by faith one accepts the promises of God for themselves and enters in by way of faith. That requires growth in some sense but the entering into that walk is also instantaneous. We should expect and strive to enter such a walk in our lifetime. Sanctification is for the here and now. 2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
1Th 5:23 ¶ And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Certainly there is growth in our walk both as new born believers and even for entirely sanctified believers. We never are omnipotent and God adds to our knowledge and understanding daily. Growth does not require sin to be achieved. Sin may be a part of growth but is not a prerequisite. There is growth in holy and righteous living. Jesus proved that point as a child, He grew. One does not have to be sinning to be growing.

Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

That’s living an entire sanctified life in a nutshell.

 

[trustitl]

] I have no idea what command you are talking about, but there is no command a Just and Holy God requires out of His people that they do not have the ability with His proffered help to obey. God is no taskmaster. You paint a picture of God much in kind to the one the servant with only one talent drew.

Very well said HP.

DHK and others are either preaching this message of our inability to be free from sin because:

1. they are in bondage to sin themselves and cannot imagine the possibility that one could possibly be free from the dominion of sin, or

2. they are so infatuated with the sovereignty and holiness of God that they do not want to diminish Him by imagining that He could be pleased with such wretched worms as us.

I hope it is the latter, but I fear it is the former with the latter merely being a way to appease ones conscience.

 

[DHK]

Very well said HP.

DHK and others are either preaching this message of our inability to be free from sin because:

1. they are in bondage to sin themselves and cannot imagine the possibility that one could possibly be free from the dominion of sin, or

2. they are so infatuated with the sovereignty and holiness of God that they do not want to diminish Him by imagining that He could be pleased with such wretched worms as us.

I hope it is the latter, but I fear it is the former with the latter merely being a way to appease ones conscience.

1 Peter 1:15 but just as he who called you is holy, you yourselves also be holy in all of your behavior; (WEB)

Are you as holy as God--in all your behavior??

If not, you sin--every day. This is the teaching of the Word of God.

Unfortunately too many Christians do not have a realization or a sense of the exceeding sinfulness of sin, and the awesome and fearful holiness of God.

Habakkuk 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?

 

[trustitl]

Are you as holy as God--in all your behavior??

If not, you sin--every day. This is the teaching of the Word of God.

Do you really think that when God created us He made it so we would only be able to please Him when we were as holy as He is? Was Enoch as holy as God? Was Mary as holy as God? Noah? Righteous Lot?

I think you are failing to see what we were created for and what we are called to.

Concerning the issue of sanctification, you are unable to understand it because you think sinless perfectionism is the only alternative to your own ideas. Also, as HP as pointed out time and time again, the false teaching of original sin and its consequences has you thinking in a box that you cannot see out of.

 

[DHK]

Do you really think that when God created us He made it so we would only be able to please Him when we were as holy as He is? Was Enoch as holy as God? Was Mary as holy as God? Noah? Righteous Lot?

I think you are failing to see what we were created for and what we are called to.

Concerning the issue of sanctification, you are unable to understand it because you think sinless perfectionism is the only alternative to your own ideas. Also, as HP as pointed out time and time again, the false teaching of original sin and its consequences has you thinking in a box that you cannot see out of.

When you speak of the false teaching of original sin, and I assume the depravity man; then I can only assume that you would believe in its corollary: "the goodness of man," one of the most anti-Christian doctrine doctrines known. It is the basis of humanism, a religion whose sole purpose is to destroy Biblical Christianity. Please don't tell me that you believe in this godless doctrine of the "goodness of man." The Bible, everywhere, throughout every book, speaks out against it.

Jesus told the rich young ruler quite plainly: "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but One." (and that is God). No man is good. We all have an evil, corrupted sin nature, inherited from Adam. All men are born evil. There are none that are innocent. One has to teach a child to tell the truth; not to teach them how to tell a lie. They know how to tell lies as soon as they are born (Psalm 58:3). We don't have to teach them how to lie. It is inherited in their sin nature.

Adam and Eve were created in the image and likeness of God.
They sinned. That image and likeness was marred.
That marred image and likeness is what is passed down to you and I. We no longer are made in that perfect image and likeness of God, such as Adam was. It is tainted with sin, such as all creation is. It falls under the curse of sin. It is prone to corruption.
Part of the image and likeness is restored when the person is saved, regenerated; but only a part. It is not fully restored. Thus Paul says we are to not to be conformed to this word; but to be conformed to the "image of Christ." That is a goal which will never be fully attained on this earth. It will not happen.
It will happen either in death, or in the rapture.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Someday that image and likeness will be restored. But not now. Now we have a depraved nature passed down from Adam. We do not have a glorified body that cannot sin. Only Christ was without sin. To say that any other individual is without sin is heresy. If that were true then Christ would not have to die for that individual.
Why die and pay the penalty for the sins of a person who has no sins??

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

DHK:

"Entire sanctification is not a Biblical doctrine."

GE:
Not to dispute, but to agree, I would say, yes, Entire sanctification is not a Biblical doctrine--- except 'in Christ', 'for us'; exactly the same as with justification. We are holy completely in the eyes of the Holy God: "In Him"; He being our Representative and Substitute in holiness and sanctification as in righteousness. This sanctification is not imparted fully at once at salvation; it is imputed fully at once at salvation.

 

[Fox]

sanctification........

Sanctification is a "setting apart". It would include sin but not entirely a sin issue. Notice in Gen.2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: was the 7th day sinning? Notice also, Ex.29:44 And I will sanctify the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar: I will sanctify also both Aaron and his sons, to minister to me in the priest's office.
The words Sanctify, Sanctuary and Saint all come from the same root. It just means to "set apart".

 

[padredurand]

I pastored in both Methodist and Nazarene churches for 14 years. The doctrine of entire sanctification has Wesleyan roots with some twists. In UMC circles it is widely ignored and in CotN runs the full spectrum from a person possessing sinless perfection to one capable of shipwrecking their faith over the most benign event.

John Wesley began publishing a tract entitled "A Plain Account of Christian Perfection" in 1727 and continued to expand and revise until 1777. He summarizes his beliefs on Christian Perfection....

26. In the year 1764, upon a review of the whole subject, I wrote down the sum of what I had observed in the following short propositions: --

"(1.) There is such a thing as perfection; for it is again and again mentioned in Scripture.

"(2.) It is not so early as justification; for justified persons are to 'go on unto perfection.' (Heb. 6:1.)

"(3.) It is not so late as death; for St. Paul speaks of living men that were perfect. (Phil. 3:15.)

"(4.) It is not absolute. Absolute perfection belongs not to man, nor to angels, but to God alone.

"(5.) It does not make a man infallible: None is infallible, while he remains in the body.

"(6.) Is it sinless? It is not worth while to contend for a term. It is 'salvation from sin.'

"(7.) It is 'perfect love.' (1 John 4:18.) This is the essence of it; its properties, or inseparable fruits, are, rejoicing evermore, praying without ceasing, and in everything giving thanks. (1 Thess. 5:16, &c.)

"(8.) It is improvable. It is so far from lying in an indivisible point, from being incapable of increase, that one perfected in love may grow in grace far swifter than he did before.

"(9.) It is amissible, capable of being lost; of which we have numerous instances. But we were not thoroughly convinced of this, till five or six years ago.

"(10.) It is constantly both preceded and followed by a gradual work.

"(11.) But is it in itself instantaneous or not? In examining this, let us go on step by step.

"An instantaneous change has been wrought in some believers: None can deny this.

"Since that change, they enjoy perfect love; they feel this, and this alone; they 'rejoice evermore, pray without ceasing, and in everything give thanks.' Now, this is all that I mean by perfection; therefore, these are witnesses of the perfection which I preach.

"'But in some this change was not instantaneous.' They did not perceive the instant when it was wrought. It is often difficult to perceive the instant when a man dies; yet there is an instant in which life ceases. And if ever sin ceases, there must be a last moment of its existence, and a first moment of our deliverance from it.

"'But if they have this love now, they will lose it.' They may; but they need not. And whether they do or no, they have it now; they now experience what we teach. They now are all love; they now rejoice, pray, and praise without ceasing.

"'However, sin is only suspended in them; it is not destroyed.' Call it which you please. They are all love to-day; and they take no thought for the morrow.

"'But this doctrine has been much abused.' So has that of justification by faith. But that is no reason for giving up either this or any other scriptural doctrine. 'When you wash your child,' as one speaks, 'throw away the water; but do not throw away the child.'

"'But those who think they are saved from sin say they have no need of the merits of Christ.' They say just the contrary. Their language is,

'Every moment, Lord, I want The merit of thy death!'

They never before had so deep, so unspeakable, a conviction of the need of Christ in all his offices as they have now.

"Therefore, all our Preachers should make a point of preaching perfection to believers constantly, strongly, and explicitly; and all believers should mind this one thing, and continually agonize for it."

http://gbgm-umc.org/Umhistory/Wesley/perfect1.html

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Fox: Sanctification is a "setting apart". .... It just means to "set apart".

HP: Certainly sanctification involves being set apart, but that is not all that is involved. Before something is set apart it must be cleansed. Sanctification involved first cleaning and then a setting apart. If we travel forward in time just a few chapters we find God giving the law to Moses and to the children of Israel. Ex 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

God created a day to keep holy, not just a day merely set apart.

If we notice in the temple, before any instrument could be used, it had to be sanctified, purified, cleansed in order to be placed into service. Sanctification involves cleansing, purifying, hallowing, being made holy, as well as ‘just’ setting apart, does it not?

 

[Fox]

HP: Certainly sanctification involves being set apart, but that is not all that is involved. Before something is set apart it must be cleansed.

This sounds good but just taint so. Show me some Scripture where the seventh day was "cleansed". Where Moses "cleansed" the tabernacle of the congregation.

 

[Marcia]

Posted by Heavenly Pilgrim:
Sanctification has to be accepted by faith. I would say that you can no more grow into sanctification than you can grow into salvation. Certainly there is a growth of knowledge that leads us to salvation as well as sanctification, but one must enter both by way of faith. There must be a point in time where by faith one accepts the promises of God for themselves and enters in by way of faith. That requires growth in some sense but the entering into that walk is also instantaneous. We should expect and strive to enter such a walk in our lifetime. Sanctification is for the here and now

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying but you make it sound like sanctification is something we "enter into" or do. As soon as one believes in Christ, the process of sanctification begins. We don't decide on when it begins.

When I was saved, I had no idea what sanctification was, and didn't know for quite a while - probably over a year or so. So I had no "faith" in sanctification and certainly was not "entering" into it knowingly. Yet the process had begun as soon as I believed. It was out of my control. This does not mean I was being good, but rather that the Holy Spirit was working on and in me. Whether I submitted or not was up to me, but sanctification was there. I knew I was a new person, was saved, would be with God after death, and my life had changed. But I had no clue about sanctification.