Doctrine of Sinless Perfection

I don't agree with what you have said.

Being a Christian and walking with the Lord in this present life should not be taken by any to be construed as meaning experientially, complete freedom from sin or even near freedom in this present life has been discovered. The believer’s purity is in Christ. A Christian is the subject of sin, as well as of holiness, of flesh, as well as of Spirit.

1 John 1:8; Romans 6:14

The law is spiritual, yet even as we are in Christ, after the flesh we are carnal, so that with the flesh we serve the law of sin and so are subject to die physically (2Co 10:13; Rom 7:14-25). Those regenerated have the new inner man, born of God, that is spiritual and is impeccable (1Joh 3:6; 5:18; Eph 3:16), and is subject to the law of God (Rom 7:22). We wait for the redemption of the flesh, for then the carnal will be put off, completely (1Joh 2:28; 3:2). Being born again, unlike the first man Adam, our inner man cannot sin and is not subject to death. After the flesh, we still are subject to sin and death.

I recommend those interested read what is said here, regarding the Law Of God:
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/10/4989.html

By grace,

 

In reply:

In this present life, no, I do not believe the saint will achieve sinless perfection.

Regarding the other questions:

1. Being a Christian and walking with the Lord in this present life should not be taken by any to be construed as meaning experientially, complete freedom from sin or even near freedom in this present life has been discovered. The believer’s purity is in Christ. A Christian is the subject of sin, as well as of holiness, of flesh, as well as of Spirit.
1 John 1:8; Romans 6:14

The law is spiritual, yet even as we are in Christ, after the flesh we are carnal, so that with the flesh we serve the law of sin and so are subject to die physically (2Co 10:13; Rom 7:14-25). Those regenerated have the new inner man, born of God, that is spiritual and is impeccable (1Joh 3:6; 5:18; Eph 3:16), and is subject to the law of God (Rom 7:22). We wait for the redemption of the flesh, for then the carnal will be put off, completely (1Joh 2:28; 3:2). Being born again, unlike the first man Adam, our inner man cannot sin and is not subject to death. After the flesh, we still are subject to sin and death.

2. My life reflects less sin, yes, I sin less. My life is not now what it was, and is not yet what it shall be, but I know when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His Coming, and it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that when He shall appear, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. (1Joh 3:2; 2:28)

3. Because after the flesh, I am subject to sin.

4. Jesus Christ is my righteousness. Jesus Christ is my mediator, and Jesus Christ makes intersession for me. Salvation is of the Lord.

5. Even as I have been shown my sin, so have I received Christ the Lord, my Saviour. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. At the redemption of the body, sin will be put off. (Eph 1:4-7, 13-14; 4:30; 1Joh 1:8-2:1; Tit 2:13; 1Cor 15:48-57)

By grace,
Bob Krajcik
Mansfield, Ohio

 

As a brother told me, ...we do "sin less", but are not "sinless".

 

UZThD wrote,

Paul is here reminding the Philippian Christians that until the race has been completed and won, there is no guarantee of receiving the prize. Even those who are totally sanctified are still running the race, and the possibility of stumbling therefore remains, and we dare not take our eyes off of our Savior and the prize that awaits those who successfully finish the race.

 

Dear Craig,
How much sin does it take to stumble and lose the race?

Karen

 

Karen,

One sin does not effect our salvation. Long as we keep on confess our sins to Christ faithfully. And we must be endure all the way on the narrow road throughout all our life till death or Christ comes, then will past the "finish line" for the race. Or, if we give up halfway in the race, and turn away back to the world again, and remain in the dark. Then shall not have victory and overcometh.

No person on earth is sinless. All of us are commit sinned daily, because we received sin comes from Adam (Romans 5:12). God knows that we easy fall in sin all the times, because we are human. But, God expects us that we should confess our sins to God, ask for forgive faithfully. If we do not ask God for forgive sin, THEN God might will not forgive our currently sins, if we continue sinning right now.

Being entering the narrow road is not easy. Many are strive enter into it, most of them are not able to enter it. Christ knew most of them easy give up, and turn away into their own old habit ways again become lost again.

Luke 15:11-32 explains us very clear, a person who was belong to his father's place in the first place. Then, a person turns away from his father in his own way. Christ tells us, that a person who turns away from his father is LOST, period. He was speak of spiritual lost.

If we decide to stop serve the Lord, and stop confess our sins to Christ, we decide want back to the world again. Then, we are astray away from the Lord, and remain in the dark again all the way in the rest of our life. Then, we are lost (Luke 15:32), that's period.

We make commit a sin does not immediately effect our salvation at moment. God expects that when we commit sin, we should immediate confess our sin to Christ right away, without delay.

For example, if suppose a Christian commit sinned about 50 times in a whole week, without make a confession to Christ. Probably a Christian is just becaming lost or backslidding. But, if suppose a Christian backsliding for a whole week while sinning without make a confess of sin to Christ, then a Christian would immediately realize that Christian is a backslidding already have to confess ask Christ to forgive all sins of the whole week.

God knows the future what will happen to a Christian, when a Christian commit sinned, continue sinning, and WILL confess or get right with the LOrd again, being backslidding for a temporary time. God KNOWS when the right time to come for a Christian, who shall immediately confess and repent of sins to Christ. A Christian is not seriously lost in God's sight.

But, the matter is God KNOWS in Christian's heart, if a Christian is not seriously repent or confess, want to stay in the dark, then God knows that a Christian is lost.

Otherwise, suppose, a Christian stopped confess sin to Christ for a long, long time like over a month, or a year, clearly, this Christian is lost, that's period!

1 John 1:9 commands us, that we ought confess to Christ all the times. OR, if we do not confess to Christ, then He might not forgive our currently sins till our death(unless we finally confess and repent to Christ at the last minute). But, 1 John 1:9 teaches us, that we should have a good habit and daily practical relationship with Christ all the times.

A Christian commit a sin does not immediately effect salvation to become lost. IF a Christian CONTINUES{/B] sinning all the times, without confess, then will effect salvation become lost.

That why Christ commands us, that we ought to be endure always all the times till we die or Christ comes, according Matt. 10:22 & Matt. 24:13.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[/QUOTE]Paul is here reminding the Philippian Christians that until the race has been completed and won, there is no guarantee of receiving the prize. Even those who are totally sanctified are still running the race, and the possibility of stumbling therefore remains, and we dare not take our eyes off of our Savior and the prize that awaits those who successfully finish the race.

[/qb][/QUOTE]===

That really sounds as though my salvation depends upon how well I can run and not on what Christ has done. I think I'm more convinced by my understanding of Romans 8. "Those He predestined, He also called..those He called He justified...THOSE He justified...He glorified"

Oh no, that's aorist . So, who knows if it will happen ? Woe is me

 

Dear DeafPostTrib,
Thanks for your response. I can't agree with it, because among other reasons, I rely on Jesus' statement that the Father is greater than all, and that no one can pluck me from His Hand.
No one would include me.

A problem that I find with your view is that ultimately it defines sin as only specific, well-defined concrete acts. There are sins of omission. There are sins of doing the right things for the wrong reasons. Sometimes a Christian takes a long time to mature in the faith to realize that he needs to change a certain action.
Sanctification is a process. I believe that all Christians on this earth still sin regularly to some degree in thought, word, or deed. But some Christians are farther along the path of Christlikeness than others.
I'll have to say it sounds fairly Catholic in a stereotypical way to say that our salvation ultimately depends on whether or not we have confessed every sin.
Jesus Christ is my Lord and my Saviour. And I am saved once and for all because of His shed blood for me on the cross. He saved me, He is saving me, and He will complete what He has begun in me.

Karen

 

Amen.

 

In adition to my previous comment about how as Christians, we sin less, but are not sinless yet, here is a brief excerpt from Geoffrey B. Wilson speaking about Ephesians 1:4. The perfection refers to the heavenly state, and we are not there yet.

 

I don't know, but I certainly have no intention of finding out .

 

If the salvation of man is wholly and exclusively God’s doing, every word of admonition, every word of correction, and every word of rebuke spoken and written by the Apostle Paul were words of futility. If the eternal destiny of all men is predetermined, all preaching and teaching of the Word is nothing but nonsense and a squandering of the time that God has given to us. If the eternal destiny of our children is exclusively in God’s hands, no amount of nurturing them will accomplish anything, and those who have conceived children predetermined to die and spend eternity in hell are guilty of the most monstrous of crimes against both God and humanity. I am not a monster, and I do not believe that my God is a monster. All Scriptures needs to be taken together.

1 Cor. 9:24. Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25. Everyone who competes in the games exercises self- control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
26. Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27. but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

 

What these missionaries believe in their intellect and what they know in their heart to be true are two VERY different things, and we have the testimony of their very lives to prove it.

1 John 3:3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. (NKJV, my emphasis in bold type)